Can't get Cessna 182 manually started!!!!

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tmpifer1
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Joined: 26 Dec 2017, 23:38

Can't get Cessna 182 manually started!!!!

Post by tmpifer1 »

Hi there,

Just bought the 182. Can't get it started manually. Followed the checklist to a T. Will auto start using the fsx auto-start command. Engine spins but won't catch. Checked everything in the hangar, had a bad left mag which I fixed. Still no go!

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Oracle427
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Re: Can't get Cessna 182 manually started!!!!

Post by Oracle427 »

You have to listen for the rumble when the engine behind to fire and very promptly move the mixture to full rich before it will keep running.

The other gotcha is the asking of priming. You need to prime for about 3-5 seconds. In one case, an individual that reported following the checklist was actually priming for about 18 seconds when we watched a video recording that they were kind enough to provide.

Also ensure the throttle is opened about 25%. A bit much for RW IMHO, but it seems to be the only way to get a consistent start with the engine revving around 1000 RPM.

These plans are not so easy to start. It does take a little finesse. Remember, fuel, air and spark in the proper proportions!
Flight Simmer since 1983. PP ASEL IR Tailwheel
N28021 1979 Super Viking 17-30A

tmpifer1
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Re: Can't get Cessna 182 manually started!!!!

Post by tmpifer1 »

I think I may have it solved. In the multiple YouTube videos I watched, it seemed that the mixture was pulled all the way out during startup. I ran the checklist, then cracked the mixture in just a touch. When I heard the engine start to catch, I moved the mixture in as prescribed. I'm guessing that in the full out position, absolutely no fuel was getting to the engine, thus it wouldn't fire at all. Going to fire it up again this AM and see if this theory proves out.

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Oracle427
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Re: Can't get Cessna 182 manually started!!!!

Post by Oracle427 »

No, that is not correct procedure. The mixture is supposed to be fully cut off. What you are seeing indicates it may need a little more priming for a good start.

Leaving the mixture open will flood the engine and even really in a fire in RL. The fuel injectors on these aircraft are not impulse type. These fuel injectors continuously feed fuel into the engine whether it is running or not.

I've seen raw fuel pouring out the exhaust and puddling under the nosewheel from doing things like this. Try the proper procedure with a second or two more priming. For good priming, make sure the throttle is partially open, fuel pump is on and the mixture is fully opened for 3-5 seconds before pulling the mixture back to cutoff.

Once you get the hang of it, it is fairly easy to do. I think the A2A sim does a fairly good job of modeling the procedure and the results of incorrect procedure.

A few other pointers.
In hot weather, less priming is usually required as the fuel will remain atomized in the intake.

In cold weather with a cold engine a little more priming is usually required as the fuel will condense in the intake leaving less vapor for ignition.

If the engine is hot and was running recently, try starting without priming as the engine may catch from the vapor in the intake.

To the best of my knowledge, A2A does not model fuel vaporization in the fuel lines, but that is a problem in the hottest days of summer with an engine that was shut down for a time, but not long enough to significantly cool off. This manifests as a very erratic fuel flow during priming and a very odd irregular sound from the fuel pump. Yet another oddity of these old tech 1950's engines. Be thankful that it isn't modeled. :)
Flight Simmer since 1983. PP ASEL IR Tailwheel
N28021 1979 Super Viking 17-30A

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AKar
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Re: Can't get Cessna 182 manually started!!!!

Post by AKar »

Yep, precisely as above.

In my own limited experience, and more by all the OSINT I've collected from the colleagues expert on the Lycoming's implementation of, in practice, the Bendix pressure carburetor, the IO-Lycoming engine should be perhaps the most consistently starting GA piston in variable conditions. In the simulation, the difficulty appears to be to get the prime mixture to initially 'catch'. The simulation appears to be rather sensitive to conditions much outside of ISA, though it shouldn't be too hard to get right. For everything except hot start: prime for a second or few, or a bit longer if very cold. Then crank until it catches. Then mixture smoothly but positively in.

There is a trick that I can't really comment except for that it seems pretty valid on the paper: if the engine doesn't catch after some cranking, and you are sure you haven't over-primed: keep on cranking while just slightly pumping the mixture once or so. Essentially this would open a way for the fuel pushed in by the fuel pump turning with the engine, perhaps catching a flame with some. Any continuous mixture introduction, no matter how small, will rather positively flood the engine, however.

In what comes to the fuel vapor, there are ways to clear those rather reliably, but as mentioned, this condition is likely not simulated down to actual dynamics.

-Esa

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Oliver Branaschky
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Re: Can't get Cessna 182 manually started!!!!

Post by Oliver Branaschky »

One thing that really caught me out the other day — after having spent a lot of time in the actual airplane (C172R in this case) and after returning to the sim — was me not opening the throttle enough. As Oracle mentions, the simulation seems a bit exaggerated compared to the real thing in that regard.

The RL checklist calls for the throttle being opened “a quarter of an inch”, and in reality I’ve never experienced any problem with that procedure. But the simulation reeeaaallly needs a lot more than that (25% seems about right).

So go ahead and crack that throttle open next time you try it. Maybe it helps.


Viele Grüße | Best regards,
Oliver

Cat3508
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Re: Can't get Cessna 182 manually started!!!!

Post by Cat3508 »

Well, I've had the 182 for a fair while now and i've never yet got it to start manually. Have flattened the battery a few times as well. Followed the procedure to the letter, but with no success. As for the Cherokee, first start every time. A lot of people seem to have this problem, so obviously the settings have to be just right, if you can find them!!

Cheers,

Neil
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Lewis - A2A
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Re: Can't get Cessna 182 manually started!!!!

Post by Lewis - A2A »

Cat3508 wrote:Followed the procedure to the letter,
I think this is why some have issues, whilst the procedure is a good guide you should always adapt it to your situation is the engine hot or cold alone will change the procedure, add into it engine temperament when starting and the environment you are starting in and you should certainly be reacting to the start rather than ignoring whats happening and being heard on start up because you are sticking to a set procedure.

thanks,
Lewis
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