A2A Skylane and Winds ?

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scottb613
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A2A Skylane and Winds ?

Post by scottb613 »

Hi Folks,

RE: A2A Skylane P3Dv3.4

While I've had this plane for a while - I haven't flown it much until recently... It is honestly one of the hardest planes I've ever flown in FS - effects seem greatly exaggerated and I've got some time flying real 182's for comparison... I know P3D changed how some of the control surfaces interact with updates - especially the rudder - could that have massively affected the flight model ??? LOL - if it behaved in real life how it is behaving in my sim - it wouldn't have the stellar safety record it enjoys as it's downright dangerous...

Has anyone from A2A flown this aircraft in P3Dv3.4 - - - lately ???

I've been doing a lot of testing and watching videos on YouTube - from what I've seen the FSX A2A Skylane seems much more tame and manageable - granted I have no idea of the settings they used... In P3D - on takeoff the "ball" seems wildly out of control with massive swings to the left or right and it's almost impossible to maintain a relative center position with either the rudder trim or rudder itself... A 7 knot crosswind feels like 20 knots - ground effect on landing acts like a steel trampoline even with proper speed control into the flare... The plane seems very unstable in yaw in flight as even relatively light winds have the tail wagging back and forth like a happy puppy - it's very mushy when trying to arrest it with the rudder (even at cruise speed when the rudder should have considerable authority)...

Here is a sequence I just shot trying to use the autopilot just off the coast of Miami - hands free - granted - it's a bit of a gusty day with wind speeds between 20 and 25 knots - nothing the plane shouldn't be capable of handling with ease... This is using the autopilot at 1000 feet in HDG hold... The oscillations start small and just continue to get worse - in both the vertical and lateral guidance...

I did the same test with the Real Air Lancair for a control and it flew as you would expect to prove it wasn't just AS16 acting up...

I have the latest updates - I'm running P3Dv3.4 - weight and balance are correct - equal amounts of fuel in both tanks - flying proper airspeed and procedures - there is no damage to the aircraft - and my controls are properly calibrated...

Any ideas ?

Thanks...


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Regards,
Scott
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Lewis - A2A
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Re: A2A Skylane and Winds ?

Post by Lewis - A2A »

Hello,

can you let us know more about your setup, what add on's you are using, what controls and control software. Also for the images you posted whats your P3D frame rate at the time?

thanks,
Lewis - A2A
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scottb613
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A2A Skylane and Winds ?

Post by scottb613 »

Hi Lewis,

Thanks for responding...

Sure...

PC: 2700K Sandy running at 4.7 Ghz with 16 GB RAM..

Environment: AS16+ASCA+ENVTEX

Controls: Full CH HOTAS setup - the manufacturer drivers were never loaded - using native Win10x64 drivers... The devices are calibrated via FSUIPC without any null zones or control curves (slope)...

Frame Rates: Between 40 to 60 since I was off the coast a bit with minimal scenery... On average - my frames are usually around 30 in more typical scenery densities...

The last time I flew the plane was under P3D 3.2 - upgraded to P3D 3.4 over the past holiday season... I probably only had a couple hours on the Hobbs under 3.2 because I bought the Comanche at the same time and spent my time with that... So I didn't use it enough to form an opinion under 3.2... One thing in general I did notice when moving from 3.2 to 3.4 is the rudder forces seemed to have quadrupled - full rudder deflection seems to be capable of almost whipping the aircraft in nearly a 180 degree turn - hence my suspicion something really changed with the flight dynamics engine in P3D itself...

I have the A2A Comanche and A2A Cherokee as well and I tested them under the same conditions - their flight characteristics seem much more plausible... It only seems to be the Skylane under 3.4 that seems out to lunch...

Are you running P3Dv3.4 and can just try some basic testing under moderate wind conditions and see if you have similar results ? I'd love to know if you could pull off a landing without bouncing down the runway... My normal approaches are at 65 KIAS - short field at 60 KIAS...

As I mentioned - I've watched a ton of videos while troubleshooting this - most specified FSX - and they appeared to be a much more stable aircraft... If anyone has both FSX and P3D I'd appreciate some comparisons on the FDE... While you have to pay attention with any plane - the C182 is known to be one of the more forgiving ones to pilot error... It's a relatively easy aircraft to fly...

Regards,
Scott


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Lewis - A2A
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Re: A2A Skylane and Winds ?

Post by Lewis - A2A »

Hello,

if the rudder changed a lot for you its probably a setting difference you have since updating, i'd wager a setting you had in your 3.2 install is not in your 3.4 install hence the feeling the flight model changed.

When you upgraded did you do a clean install?

thanks,
Lewis
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scottb613
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Re: A2A Skylane and Winds ?

Post by scottb613 »

Hi Lewis,

IIRC - I think I remember reading comments on the rudder changes posted in the forums - in general - with P3D - so I don't think it's user specific to me ??? Somewhere in between 3.2 and 3.4 I think Lockmart tweaked something with the way FDE's interact with the environment... I remember being shocked the first time I used the rudder after the upgrade to 3.4 with other than A2A aircraft - it seems system wide... My controls are set the same via FSUIPC - simple "min/max/center" positions... While the other A2A aircraft exhibited increased reactions to the use of the rudder - the A2A Skylane seems to be the only one giving me fits - as even the autopilot can't manage the plane...

It was the cleanest of all installs when I moved from P3D 3.2 to P3D 3.4 - as it included a complete OS wipe as well...

Regards,
Scott
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scottb613
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Re: A2A Skylane and Winds ?

Post by scottb613 »

Hi Lewis,

Just wondering if you might of had a chance to look at my issue in a little more detail ? I'm very curious to see if you have any of the symptoms I outlined above with your own setup or if the aircraft handles substantially different in FSX ? The fact that the autopilot exhibits ever increasing oscillations to the point of crashing the plane seems to eliminate my actual controls from the equation - that and other A2A planes seem to do better... Moderate winds are needed for the symptoms to present...

Maybe it's just me ? I know older planes tend to stagnate sometimes when newer stuff comes out - so I thought maybe the FDE hasn't been looked at with the newest versions of P3D ?

Anyway - would appreciate anyone's input on this as I would like to resolve these issues...

Thanks...

Regards,
Scott



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GrahamP
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Re: A2A Skylane and Winds ?

Post by GrahamP »

Hi Scott/Lewis,

I have the same issue with the C182 in P3D v3.4 with Active Sky 2016. Flying tonight in a 17 knot headwind at 3,000ft with the autopilot on in heading mode and altitude hold, the aircraft was violently bouncing around vertically and laterally, very much as shown in your pictures. With the autopilot off it was quite easy to control, which does make me wonder why the autopilot can't handle it.

I'm not a real world pilot so I have no experience to compare this with but if it's not right it would be appreciated if this can be resolved.

Regards
Graham

P.S.
I have applied the latest update.

GrahamP
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Re: A2A Skylane and Winds ?

Post by GrahamP »

P.S.
I should have said 17 knots gusting to 27.

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mallcott
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Re: A2A Skylane and Winds ?

Post by mallcott »

GrahamP wrote:Hi Scott/Lewis,

I have the same issue with the C182 in P3D v3.4 with Active Sky 2016. Flying tonight in a 17 knot headwind at 3,000ft with the autopilot on in heading mode and altitude hold, the aircraft was violently bouncing around vertically and laterally, very much as shown in your pictures. With the autopilot off it was quite easy to control, which does make me wonder why the autopilot can't handle it.

I'm not a real world pilot so I have no experience to compare this with but if it's not right it would be appreciated if this can be resolved.

Regards
Graham

P.S.
I have applied the latest update.
What is your Active Sky turbulence scale set to?

70?

Try 35.

GrahamP
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Re: A2A Skylane and Winds ?

Post by GrahamP »

Aha! I haven't got into the AS16 option settings yet and I've left them pretty much as default up to now (must look and see what I've been missing :oops: ).

Yes, mallcott, the Turbulence Effect Scale is set at the default 70. I'll try it at 35. Thanks for that.

However, that doesn't change the fact that when I turned the autopilot off it was easily controllable hand flying when set at 70, so I still share Scott's concerns that maybe the autopilot should have been able to handle it.

Graham

P.S.
For comparison with that, I had a near miss with an Airbus passing me very closely when hand flying an ILS approach to Birmingham. I got tossed around violently by the wake turbulence and it was a struggle to control that. That actually felt quite realistic, not that I have any real world experience to base that on.

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scottb613
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Location: KMSV

A2A Skylane and Winds ?

Post by scottb613 »

Hi Graham,

Thanks for responding - glad I'm not the only one seeing this - I've spent countless hours testing this - hopefully someone from A2A takes a gander... Maybe I'm totally out to lunch ?

Regards,
Scott


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Lewis - A2A
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Re: A2A Skylane and Winds ?

Post by Lewis - A2A »

Hey Scott,

just to let you know your not forgotten, its being looked into to see if we can reproduce.

thanks,
Lewis
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scottb613
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Re: A2A Skylane and Winds ?

Post by scottb613 »

Hi Lewis,

Thanks for the update - no rush at all - really appreciate your team taking the time to look at it... If I can provide any more information - just holler...

Regards,
Scott


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Lewis - A2A
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Re: A2A Skylane and Winds ?

Post by Lewis - A2A »

Hello,

I don't believe I've yet asked to you go back to default, to rule out something else other than a P3D setting, can you please try some flights without any external weather programs.

thanks,
Lewis
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scottb613
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Re: A2A Skylane and Winds ?

Post by scottb613 »

Hi Lewis,

Will do - I won't be home until the weekend but I'll try to make some time then... I'll let you know how I make out... I would expect it to be more manageable because I don't think default winds has much of a gust factor...

Regards,
Scott


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