Take off trim issues

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First - overall a fantastic aircraft with terrific attention to detail, pleasure to fly.

Anyone else getting crazy pitch up on takeoff using the default takeoff trim setting (arrow on the line)? The plane will rotate on it's own around 50 knots and I'm needing to fight it down and add a ton of nose down trim.

To get a more normal take off I've been trimming nose down about halfway between the takeoff trim line and the full down position. Tried a bunch of different weight and flap combinations without much change. Also re-calibrated the controls and tried switching between yoke and stick.

From what I remember in the real plane (many years ago) visually trimming the elevator trim tab so that it was flush or slightly below the elevator surface would usually result in a good trim condition on takeoff.

Anyone else running into this?

Will

[Apollo]

Yes. I found it is very sensitive to trim. Too much nose down (well, not THAT much ) and it has the mains leave the ground first. If you set it to where it states, it wants to pitch up on its own at low speed. Config is single pilot, max fuel.

[lonewulf47]

A question to both: have you applied the update: http://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtop ... 21&t=41279 ? With this update the A/C will with one person and full fuel (~2600 lbs) not rotate on its own within a reasonable speed range when the trim is set exactly to zero. Of course at a certain speed the A/C will fly off the ground, but not at the low spped that are mentioned. This is what Scott has measured on the real A/C. Regarding trim setting it must also be said that whenever a remark is being made it is essential to also mention the met conditions, loading etc. No one condition compares to another. Furthermore even between the same model slightly different trim settings can be found and thirdly also differences between the different models ca be found. You should in any case only compare to a "T" model when talking of real life experience.

[Stephan]

I have the same problem. At recommend trim settings (both rudder and elevator) the plane takes off with crazy pitch and turns sharply to the left a soon as off the ground.
Even in flight, I have to constantly apply quite a bit of right aileron to keep a level attitude or the plane will always bank left quite hard. Even when I reduce the throttle to maybe 1/4 the cessna still banks to the left. Is it possible that this engine generates so much torque that it forces the pilot to constantly apply right aileron?

I haven't applied the update yet. I will try that and see if that changes anything.

[Tomas Linnet]

Please also read this:
http://www.a2asimulations.com/forum/vie ... 20&t=43086

[lonewulf47]

...At recommend trim settings (both rudder and elevator) the plane takes off with crazy pitch and turns sharply to the left a soon as off the ground...

This statement is neither very helpful nor is it meaningful. Talking about a crazy pitch: what does that mean? How is the A/C loaded? What rotation speed do you use? What controller do you use at what settings?

Talking about turning sharply to the left: In connection with a strong pitch change there is of course also a strong influence of the P-factor. Have you ever considered to apply some right foot upon rotation to counteract P-factor? Being contrary to almost all default FSX/P3D A/C our model have P-factor modelled.

Many of us testers have thousands of flying hours of real world experience. I can assure you that if the A/C had such "terrible" flight characteristics as you state, A2A would not have released the model .

[Scott - A2A]

Anyone else getting crazy pitch up on takeoff using the default takeoff trim setting (arrow on the line)? The plane will rotate on it's own around 50 knots and I'm needing to fight it down and add a ton of nose down trim.

Will,

What you are describing here is not right. If you load the plane with just one 175lb pilot and full fuel, the plane is nose heavy and requires you to rotate the plane. Are you using FSX or P3D? Also, did you get the latest update here: http://www.a2asimulations.com/forum/vie ... 23&t=41279

Scott.

[Stephan]

...At recommend trim settings (both rudder and elevator) the plane takes off with crazy pitch and turns sharply to the left a soon as off the ground...

This statement is neither very helpful nor is it meaningful. Talking about a crazy pitch: what does that mean? How is the A/C loaded? What rotation speed do you use? What controller do you use at what settings?

Talking about turning sharply to the left: In connection with a strong pitch change there is of course also a strong influence of the P-factor. Have you ever considered to apply some right foot upon rotation to counteract P-factor? Being contrary to almost all default FSX/P3D A/C our model have P-factor modelled.

Many of us testers have thousands of flying hours of real world experience. I can assure you that if the A/C had such "terrible" flight characteristics as you state, A2A would not have released the model .

I'm sorry I'm not a real life pilot with thousands of hours or real life experience, and that my way of describing things make no sense to a pro like you. However I would say this:

If I don't touch the yoke the plane will take off and bank left around 60 70 KIAS. The Cessna 182 seems super sensitive to elevator generally, unlike the cessna 172 or the Piper. Same configuration, same user, all planes seem to act fairly consistent to what I expect and the C182 is different in my non educated opinion.
I'm not a pro but I'm familiar with the P factor. As a matter of fact I'm able to take off pretty much perfectly aligned with the Civ Mustang, which is notorious for having tons of P-factor. So yeah I know about right rudder thanks. This is not what's happening in the Cessna IMO.
Finally, where did I said that the plane was "terrible" as you seem to quote me? Read again. I was just asking some simple questions. I don't understand what I said to deserved such a passive aggressive answer. I never implied that the model is wrong, I just try to understand what I experience with the purchase I made. That's all. And please note that I was just chiming on the OP who experiences the same thing. It's very well possible that we both do the same wrong thing, but it would be nice to have the A2A chief pilot nicely try to come down to our level.

[Scott - A2A]

Stephan,

First, I just want to make sure, did you get the latest accusim update here:
http://www.a2asimulations.com/forum/vie ... 23&t=41279

And if so, when on the runway, try loading the plane with full fuel and one pilot. Make sure the trim is at takeoff by mousing over it (the view from the pilot's seat, the elevator trim indicator will be below the "T" line). Make sure your flaps are UP (if flaps are at 10 deg, the takeoff will be very different). Apply full power. The plane should not take off on it's own until it's close or beyond 100 kts ias.

Let me know if this is what you see,
Scott.

[Stephan]

Stephan,

First, I just want to make sure, did you get the latest accusim update here:
http://www.a2asimulations.com/forum/vie ... 23&t=41279

And if so, when on the runway, try loading the plane with full fuel and one pilot. Make sure the trim is at takeoff by mousing over it (the view from the pilot's seat, the elevator trim indicator will be below the "T" line). Make sure your flaps are UP (if flaps are at 10 deg, the takeoff will be very different). Apply full power. The plane should not take off on it's own until it's close or beyond 100 kts ias.

Let me know if this is what you see,
Scott.

Hi Scott,

Thank you for your kind guidance. I really appreciate that you take the time to try and personally help me. I installed the update and I'm very glad to say that it completely fixed my issues. I don't experience any of the behaviors I previously mentioned, so that really did it for me!
The aircraft, under the conditions you specified, acted exactly like you expected. It gently lifts off around 100 KIAS and doesn't bank left anymore. I still have to apply a little right foot to keep the plane in line on the runway but that is totally what I normally do to compensate P factor. In flight, the aircraft keeps a steady attitude and is not super sensitive to elevator as it used to be.
Thank you very much for your help

[Scott - A2A]

Thank you for your kind guidance. I really appreciate that you take the time to try and personally help me. I installed the update and I'm very glad to say that it completely fixed my issues. I don't experience any of the behaviors I previously mentioned, so that really did it for me!

Music to my ears. Keep in mind we believe Cessna trimmed the 182T's for gross weight, with full baggage since this is how they expected them to be loaded many times. So, when it's just one pilot, it's very nose heavy. You need to rotate. Glad to have you up and flying.

Scott.

[Stephan]

Thank you for your kind guidance. I really appreciate that you take the time to try and personally help me. I installed the update and I'm very glad to say that it completely fixed my issues. I don't experience any of the behaviors I previously mentioned, so that really did it for me!

Music to my ears. Keep in mind we believe Cessna trimmed the 182T's for gross weight, with full baggage since this is how they expected them to be loaded many times. So, when it's just one pilot, it's very nose heavy. You need to rotate. Glad to have you up and flying.

Scott.

That makes sense yes. Thank you for the explanation and for this great update, Scott. Since I've known the accusimed planes, I can't fly any other type of aircraft I FSX!