Starting the C182

[rightseat]

Hello,

I've just purchased the C182 a few days ago, and I really love it. But, honestly, I'm a RL Pilot with 100 hours in Cessna 172R/SP's (newer fuel injected models), and have 260 hrs total time, but I cannot start this plane (A2A C182) no matter how many times I read the manual or follow the procedure.

I've watched Youtube videos and see that everyone in those uses the same procedure I am using, but my bird will not fire up, period. The only way I can get into the air is with the autostart.

Is there a recommended startup situation that I should be using? Something that doesn't potentially interfere with all the system fidelity of A2A aircraft? Will the default flight work?

It's a great plane, but there is no spark at all. Any help would be appreciated because I'm sure I've followed the procedures, but am about to give up.

thanks,

Scott

[Nick - A2A]

Hello Scott,

If you can give a bit more info about what you're seeing (e.g. is the starter turning the prop? Are you seeing fuel flow on the gauge when priming?) we can probably help. For instance if the starter isn't working, I'd say check the relevant circuit breaker.

Over-priming a warm engine often seems to catch people out. Also, when using the starter it may help to open the throttle a little wider than just 'cracking' it.

Thanks,
Nick

[rightseat]

Thank you. Yes, I suspect the ambient might have something to do with it. I'm running ASX, so it is hot here in Oklahoma. I'll experiment with a bit more throttle. It's kind of hard to tell what "cracked" might mean on the sim, so I'll double the distance and try that.

To answer your questions:
1) yes, the starter is spinning
2) I've checked, and it's not flooded (though the only time I could get the plane to start was using an old flooded start procedure I remembered (mixture cut off, throttle wide open, mixture in when engine catches, then reduce throttle.

On my other attempts, when I've primed it, I have just given it about 2 seconds after I see the needle move at all. I usually end up cranking for 10, waiting 20, repeating, cranking for 10, and I just never hear the engine catch. But I will play with it some more and see if the high ambient is catching me out.

I appreciate your help. The plane is amazing. I'm glad the sale came along to push me over the edge to purchase. I love it.

Best,

Scott

[rightseat]

Update:

OK, I think I have the hang of it now. I think I've fallen into the trap of over priming in higher temps, and I think I needed to crack the throttle a bit more than I was. I've practiced over and over, hot and cold, and I think I have the hang of it. Had a case of the noobs I guess....

Thank you very much for your help.



Scott

[Nick - A2A]

You're very welcome Scott and thanks for posting back with the update. Welcome to the A2A community.

Nick

[AKar]

And a little addition;

The Lycoming "fuel-injected" (or technically closer to pressure-carburetted) engines have the downside of a possibility of "flooding" one relatively easily - not having the mixture all the way at cut-off until the engine catches is the common culprit in a general case. Because of this, the start procedure essentially employs a slight over-priming on its own, perhaps counter-intuitively. As the starter turns the engine, and the plugs fire, the vapors pulled into the engine quickly reach out a combustible state. The engine catches up speed, and readily combusts the vapors further sucked in for a good second or two in a good start, before starving out. This gives one time to smoothly open the fuel flow into the engine as it is kicking on with the fumes.

In our coffee table discussions, most seem to agree that the IO-series Lycomings are one of the most reliable engines to start - in particular when comparing to the carburetted ones.

Essentially, the start-up's technicals run down like this:

• — Give the engine intake enough fuel, but not way too much;
  — Crank the engine to suck in air and light the plugs - this quickly leans the mixture;
  — If it won't catch within a few seconds in regular temps, just add some throttle to give it more air;
  — When it catches, smoothly but without hesitation push the mixture full rich;
  — If it doesn't, you can smoothly pump the mixture a small partial travel for a short time: this essentially lets some fuel to get pumped into the intakes - likely too rich, but if you cut the mixture soon, it leans out very quickly!

A good prime, a good throttle setting, a good, smooth mixture application. That's the good hand. I think the A2A IO is even too hard to start.

-Esa

[Oracle427]

Akar,

In practice, I've always found the RL IO's harder to start than the O's, especially when they are hot and it is hot outside. It's not difficult at all, but they require a little bit more finesse and you have to approach them with the understanding and an appropriate plan as you have laid out here.

[AKar]

Akar,

In practice, I've always found the RL IO's harder to start than the O's, especially when they are hot and it is hot outside. It's not difficult at all, but they require a little bit more finesse and you have to approach them with the understanding and an appropriate plan as you have laid out here.

What are your regular OATs? Out here we have a bottom limit for a reasonably hot weather at 25 °C (77 °F), regular summer days being around 18...22 °C (64...72 °F). For the rest of the year, we do mostly...somewhat seriously colder. Also, airplanes around here are in general cold-started, flying relatively little. Kicking a hot Lycoming IO, even a sun-warm when it is actually warm, seems to take some different attitude, and another trick, instead of over-priming.

As you say, and with a very good point, it takes a bit more moves, or finesse, but a Lyco IO tends to start quite reliably if you get it.

Edit: You live in the NY area? The weather should not be that significantly warmer out there, so that's likely somewhat beside the point of me. More to it, an IO mostly responds to the same tricks wherever, whereas an O (or any carburetted engine) tends to be more difficult, or selective vice the conditions. Of a curious note is that when you prime an O-Lyco, the initial priming is but exactly the same in principle than priming an IO, aside the number of cylinders generally. The difference is on that in an O, hardly any fuel is sucked in through the carburetor at low RPM, whereas in an IO it is essentially pumped through, if the mixture was full-open. So it is the follow-up that is manual with IO.

-Esa

[Oracle427]

I was just flying the other day with OAT on the ground at 37C, yes thirty seven. NYC is typically in the high 20's low 30's in the summer.

[AKar]

I was just flying the other day with OAT on the ground at 37C, yes thirty seven. NYC is typically in the high 20's low 30's in the summer.

Oh, I envy you!

Right today on to vacation, and doing 18 °C..on a particularly warm day for this god damned summer!

-Esa

[Oracle427]

No you don't! 37C in a Cessna cockpit on the ground or below 4500' is HOT HOT HOT. You lose body weight by the hour!

You know that talk about hard starting due to fuel vapor in the fuel injection lines in the POH? This is when it happens.

The fuel flow gauge on the G1000 will fluctuate rapidly and swing from max to zero and all over before settling down to a stable flow for priming. You can hear the pump sucking air for a couple of seconds and whirring rapidly before settling down as it pumps fuel. It's not unusual to have to "prime" for 7-10 seconds if the engine is still hot and has only sat on the ground for 30 minutes.

At the temps you are operating at, I've never encountered issues.