Milometer/Tripometer in Cherokee 180?

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hampshireandy
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Milometer/Tripometer in Cherokee 180?

Post by hampshireandy »

Hi, reposting this as previously posted in the wrong section! Ive recently come back to flight simming and rediscovered my love of the Cherokee but just one question. I can measure the flight time but I cant find an instrument to measure distance flown? I know that sounds a stupid question but im obviously missing something here!
Any help appreciated!
Regards
Andy

EDIT If the VOR im flying to has an associated DME then I can see the distance on the DME equipment but if the VOR doesnt then im trying to find a way to count down the distance to that VOR/waypoint/NDB etc. Still scratching my head here.
Andy

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Oracle427
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Re: Milometer/Tripometer in Cherokee 180?

Post by Oracle427 »

Without using DME or a GPS, you will need to use cross radials from other navaids or verify position using landmarks if VMC.
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hampshireandy
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Re: Milometer/Tripometer in Cherokee 180?

Post by hampshireandy »

I just simply want a way of knowing what distance im flying from point A to point B, and then C. Is there no instrument in the Cherokee cockpit that can show me that?

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Oracle427
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Re: Milometer/Tripometer in Cherokee 180?

Post by Oracle427 »

Are you intentionally avoiding the GPS?
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N28021 1979 Super Viking 17-30A

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TBryson2
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Re: Milometer/Tripometer in Cherokee 180?

Post by TBryson2 »

hampshireandy wrote:I just simply want a way of knowing what distance im flying from point A to point B, and then C. Is there no instrument in the Cherokee cockpit that can show me that?
No. GA aircraft are not like automobiles in that they keep track of miles. They keep track of engine and airframe hours. It’s up to the pilot to track miles. Even in my log book, I never kept track of miles.

You can use charts and the right tools, or a chart based website (skyvector.com) to keep track, or as stated before, use the GPS. It does most of the work for you!

Be aware, Skyvector is NOT designed for flight sim enthusiasts, but for real world flight planning. I only mentioned it as an example.
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hampshireandy
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Re: Milometer/Tripometer in Cherokee 180?

Post by hampshireandy »

Thanks for your replies guys, Im trying to practise VOR/NDB navigation so i dont use the GPS, that seems too easy, im obviously old school!
Cheers

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Nick - A2A
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Re: Milometer/Tripometer in Cherokee 180?

Post by Nick - A2A »

Hi Andy,

If you really want to go 'old school' you may want to consider getting hold of something like an E6-B app (or even the real thing if you're really keen). This will allow you to calculate your true ground speed, which, when multiplied by time flown, is perhaps the closest equivalent to an odometer in a car.

Thanks,
Nick

Hook
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Re: Milometer/Tripometer in Cherokee 180?

Post by Hook »

hampshireandy wrote:Thanks for your replies guys, Im trying to practise VOR/NDB navigation so i dont use the GPS, that seems too easy, im obviously old school!
Cheers
Ah, good! This is how I do it. I was afraid I was the only one.

Typically we don't care how many miles we've flown, only how many minutes or hours. The miles are only used to calculate the time it will take. This can be a bit confusing when you are first transitioning from cars to airplanes, but you get used to it quickly. If you live in Texas you are already measuring distance in hours. :D

I plan my trips on skyvector.com and was surprised at how many flight simmers use it. It will give you a magnetic course and a distance, and if you enter your expected true airspeed it will give you a time as well, corrected for expected winds. The time is close enough, but I've had better results calculating my own time which I've often found to be more accurate.

If you get a manual E6B (basically a circular slide rule for aviation) don't get a cardboard student version. A metal one is only a little more expensive (about $35) and will last forever. An electronic E6B is much more expensive for a real one, but I prefer the slide rule which has advantages when working with estimates. A computer app will work fine for flight simming if you prefer that route. I use the colored E6B from ASA which I bought on Amazon. It's big enough to see but won't fit in your pocket. :) It comes with a manual explaining how to use it.

Expect to do the occasional pure dead reckoning when there isn't a convenient VOR or NDB available. All you have is a compass course and a time to fly and a terrain feature to look for. In the A2A Piper Cub you don't have VOR or ADF, so this is the only way to do it. :D

For timing I use what real pilots use: a standard West Bend digital kitchen timer with a clock and two timers. One timer has my current leg and I reset it on each leg, the other has my total elapsed time. The Cherokee also has a timer that works well for this.

Good luck!

Hook

hampshireandy
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Re: Milometer/Tripometer in Cherokee 180?

Post by hampshireandy »

Ive just looked at Skyvector and it looks very useful but Is there a way to set the wind to zero in skyvector as im not flying with any wind in fsx at present just while i get used to navigating!.
Andy

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jeepinforfun
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Re: Milometer/Tripometer in Cherokee 180?

Post by jeepinforfun »

Try the freeware PlanG or Little Nav Map, they will both give you the information you need.
Take care, Brett

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Hook
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Re: Milometer/Tripometer in Cherokee 180?

Post by Hook »

hampshireandy wrote:Ive just looked at Skyvector and it looks very useful but Is there a way to set the wind to zero in skyvector as im not flying with any wind in fsx at present just while i get used to navigating!.
Andy
Unfortunately, no. But all you really want is the direction and distance. You should be calculating times yourself. No matter how accurate your time estimate is, it can still be around 10% off in either direction. You can use the times given by Skyvector if you wish even when the wind is incorrect; eventually you'll need to figure out how to compensate for differences between the actual flight and the time estimate anyway.

Don't worry, nothing is going to be exact. :) All part of the fun while learning to navigate.

Hook

Hook
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Re: Milometer/Tripometer in Cherokee 180?

Post by Hook »

Let me give you an example of how this works.

Plan a flight with several legs going mostly the same direction. Use the times reported by Skyvector. Time the first leg. If it goes 20% over what was estimated, add 20% to each of the remaining times. This does not require a calculator as your best guess will be close enough.

Alternatively you can use a calculator to determine the actual time it should take for each leg, but this will still be off because you are using an estimated average true airspeed. Use the method described above for remaining legs after timing the first.

The closest estimates I've gotten were using the ground speed as reported by the GPS and the distance to calculate the expected time. These are close, but never exact.

Hook

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TBryson2
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Re: Milometer/Tripometer in Cherokee 180?

Post by TBryson2 »

Another option, go to your local airport, find a flight school and ask them for an “old” local VFR chart. Pilots are required to update them every 6 months (I believe) so acquiring one that they cannot use shouldn’t be difficult. Let them know that you use it for flight simming. To make it better, you need to get a plotter (a rotating plotter is best). You can see what one looks like at Sportys.com.

Look up on YouTube on how to use it. It wil give headings and mileage and are excellent for VOR to VOR.

You can use an E6B for advanced calculations. I learned how to use the “slide rule” type, but an electronic E6B is a whole lot easier to use.

TB2
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hampshireandy
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Re: Milometer/Tripometer in Cherokee 180?

Post by hampshireandy »

Thanks guys for all your helpful advice as always.
Andy

Hook
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Re: Milometer/Tripometer in Cherokee 180?

Post by Hook »

I found an alternative to Skyvector. With this one you enter your expected ground speed for the trip and the program calculates the expected time from the distance on each leg.

https://www.iflightplanner.com/AviationCharts/

Hook

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