Navagation Data Questions

[[email protected]]

I have Prepar3d v4 and an A2A Cessna 172 Trainer with the ability to addon Flight1 430 or 530 or Reality XP 430 or 530 avionics or just use the default GNS 400. I am planning IFR training on my sim and want to make sure P3D flight planner and plane avionics are all working with the same data most likely from Navigraph. I have had some frustrating experiences in the past just flying VFR so I'm trying to understand how P3D and the addons access navagation data. Where does the data get installed? In my A2A plane or the sim or both? What is the advantage of buying Flight1 or Reality XP avionics rather than using the default GNS400? Are their avionics better or more complete because it's their specialty? What do you recommend for everything to work together off Navigraph data and charts with minimum frustration? Thank you in advance. Your simulator wisdom and experience are greatly appreciated.

[Nick - A2A]

Hello maajr57,

To get the most up to date navigation database in P3Dv4 itself, the two real alternatives are https://www.fsaerodata.com/ (paid) and http://www.aero.sors.fr/ (free).

In either case, the updated navdata you install will be presented on the default P3D GPS units. The Flight and RealityXP add-on GPS products use Garmin's trainer which has its own, separate database. Depending on which product you choose, this database is likely to be a little older than the FSAerodata and Aero.Sors databases.

However, these add-on GPS packages include many features not simulated by the default GPS gauges. For example, greatly enhanced moving map displays, terrain and traffic avoidance systems,and the ability to fly RNAV (GPS) approaches with vertical guidance.

Hope this helps a bit. The topic is a rather involved one, and to start with you certainly couldn't go wrong by installing the free Aero.Sors navaid updates.

Thanks,
Nick

[[email protected]]

Thanks Nick! You are the sim guru!

fsAeroData was the missing link for me. Now my Default GPS is still not seeing the new fsAerosoft data. This is what their forum says:

How to get simulated SIDs and STARs procedures on the GPS unit?
(only Prepar3D)
The GPS with SIDS/STARS support is named p3dgps.cab and is located on Prepar3D subfolder \Prepar3D v3\gauges.
To enable it on any default aircraft, replace default GPS named fs9gps.cab,located on airplane panels, by p3dgps.cab.
As example, to activate the new GPS on default Beech Baron 58 aircraft, go to folder \Prepar3D v3\SimObjects\Airplanes\beech_baron_58\panel, and open file panel.cfg.
Search for line with text:
gauge00=fs9gps!gps_500, 0,0

and replace by:
gauge00=p3dgps!gps_500, 0,0

These instructions are for v3. Can you give me some updated guidance please?

Thanks again in advance,
Mike

[Nick - A2A]

Hi Mike,

Please check out Rob Rogalski's post here and try editing the "panel_default.cfg" file as he suggests. If you wish to try and add the Prepar3D GPS to the virtual cockpit, you'll see an ugly bezel as Rob notes. You can reduce this a bit with the following change:

• gauge11=p3dgps!gps_500, 0, 0, 900, 550

However, the bezel will unfortunately still be visible. Because of this, you may wish to leave the virtual cockpit gauge unchanged, and restrict use of the Prepar3D GPS gauge to the pop-up panel

After you've made these edits and resaved the file, you'll need to use the Aircraft Configurator to reselect the standard GPS option. As Rob mentions, it's a good idea to back up the file before attempting any edits.

Thanks,
Nick

[[email protected]]

Thanks Nick,

I do appreciate all of your help Nick, but I feel that this is getting too crazy. I am not a programmer and I have purchased what I consider to be a premium product from A2A. I am also not the first based on your post, to want to have real world IFR capabilities and have these issues. I think the brilliant programmers at A2A need to address these issues and clarify what data the plane is using with the various options available. Simple check boxes in the plane configuration or installers to use data from Prepar3d or Navigragh. I bought Navigraph data and my A2A C172 does not use the data. Then I bought fsAeroData to update the P3D data and my A2A C172 STILL DOES NOT SEE OR USE THE DATA!!!! I bought Prepar3d and A2A products because I want to learn how to fly, not because I wanted to be a flight sim programmer. I hope you can feel my frustration and get these issues resolved.

Thank you,
Mike

[Nick - A2A]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the comments. Yes, I appreciate the current situation isn't ideal for customers who wish to use the default Prepar3D GPS to take advantage of its new SIDS/STARS functionality. Oddly, even the default P3Dv4 aircraft still to use the legacy FS9 GPS gauge, but it's something we meant to address for the Accu-Sim fleet while back.

Anyway, Rob has just been taking a look into the matter and he's found a way to integrate the P3D GPS into the virtual cockpit and 2-D popup. Assuming everything goes okay in testing, we'll release an update as soon as possible to switch the 172 (and other aircraft) over to the P3D GPS gauge.

Having said that, I think if you're planning on 'proper' IFR training and operating a Garmin GPS as realistically as possible, you'll want to go for one of the third-party options such as the RealityXP GNS 530 which use Garmin's own trainer software. In this case, of course you'll still benefit from the updated FSAerodata nav database in the sim itself, but you won't be using the default GPS gauges.

Thanks and apologies for the frustration!
Nick

[[email protected]]

Thanks Captain Nick,

Glad to hear you guys are addressing the issue. I did look into the Reality XP and the Flight1 but they were not clear as to what data they are using. I will look at it again.

As I told you earlier, I don't have an issue with spending the extra money for the required addons. I do object to buying all the addons as advised to find out that they don't work together. I would appreciate it if you would put together a system of your own using Navigraph and/or fsAeroData and the Reality XP or Flight1 GPS and test it, make the necessary code adjustments and tell us what we need to buy to make it work together. A2A has the expertise and experience that I don't have to make it happen and it would obviously add to their value as a "Premium" product and give them a competitive advantage. It would also alleviate my frustration!

Just to repeat: Build a system of your own that matches the real world as closely as possible. You pick the best combination of addons based on your experience and expertise. Make the necessary code adjustments for the next release. Then post the requirements for us to duplicate it. Sounds easy but I can't do it. I hope you can.

Thank you and keep me posted.
Mike

[Lewis - A2A]

Hey Mike,

if you want to be training the data tends to not matter as much as the procedures being the correct real ones. So rather than looking at up to date data on a relaxed realism simulation it would be best to use older data but still usable on a real simulation of a GPS that matches 1:1 the procedures of use of its real world counterpart. Many if not most of the professional training sims ive come across from desktop standing to full motion sims will often use real data that is not kept up to date but is useable as the simulation of the units themselves are the important real part.

For that you are looking at the third party Flight1 or RXP GPS simulations etc. Both of those I have mentioned have there own forums where they will be able to help you in this area as we do not produce custom GPS solutions at this time but the aircraft themselves.

thanks,
Lewis - A2A

[Oliver Branaschky]

... as we do not produce custom GPS solutions at this time...

Now there’s room for speculation!


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk

[[email protected]]

Thank you for the reply Lewis but I think you missed the point. In a previous post I said I don't care how old the info is. But if I buy fsAeroData to update the P3D data and I buy Navigragh, and the plane avionics still don't see the SID and STAR procedures provided in the data, then there is a problem. It seems the problem is the old gauges ad mentioned in the previous posts. I am going to look into the Reality XP and Flight1 GPS's. Do any of you other simmers out there have a preference?

Thank You,
Mike

[Oracle427]

The thing is that the procedures are part of the scenery and not part of the navigation data.

You can't think of this like real life where it's just a matter of updating a DB in a piece of avionics equipment like the way you do in a real aircraft every update cycle.

There are some underlying soon engine issues that can not be easily worked around and would require A2A to start releasing scenery updates for every single airport to do it the way that the underlying simulation engine works.

I can't speak for the way that these third party animals devs work around the sim engine limits, but do realize that this is not a very simple problem to solve. It basically requires rewriting the simulator itself.

The next best thing is for A2A to work the 3D model into their cockpit, or to use the third party options that bypass the limitations of the underlying simulation engine.

[[email protected]]

Thanks Chief Master Seargent,

I have come to understand some of the various issues in this frustrating experience. There is nav data in P3D, in the scenery, and/or in the GPS itself. I bought Navigraph as a trial but the A2A Default GPS did not use the data because it works from the sim data so I found out. Then I got the Navigraph data in the sim via fsAerodata and the Default GPS still doesn't use it because of some old legacy programming issues. Now I am reviewing Flight1 and Reality XP products and they don't use data from the sim or Navigraph. They have their own, maybe Jeppesen data. I guess that would be fine as long as the flight planning maps and approach plates and SIDs and STARs etc correspond to the data in the avionics.

Plan-G and Little Nav Map provide maps and flight planning tools from nav data in the sim. Plan G has no SIDs or STARs. Little Nav Map supports Navigraph data with SIDs and STARs.
Navigraph provides the the most current and updateable nav data with maps and procedure plates for a complete IFR flight planning system but doesn't update P3D nav data.
fsAerodata updates P3D Nav data with Navigraph data which requires a subscription to both, but now I have duplicate data from the scenery.
Flight1 and Reality XP use their own Nav data. How old and what you would use for flight planning is a mystery to me at this time.

What a mess!
Feel free to add to the conversation fellow simmers.

Thanks for listening.
Mike

[Oracle427]

If it's any consolation, I'm dealing with a RW problem right now with the aircraft. The two newer aircraft with the latest and greatest G1000 avionics and the latest software version freshly painted of am ADS-B installation are incapable of loading certain approaches. It's as if they don't exist at all

Turns out that Garmin had decided that they won't support LNAV approaches without published VDAs.

Meanwhile our 40 year old 182 with a G430W loads it just fine. Frustrating as heck and both Cessna and Garmin are happy to point the finger at each other and say that they can't do anything about it.

I just use the stock sim features to fly the non-GPS approaches to remain proficient with those. I tried to update the navigation data and quickly decided there was to much grief hoping down that road, and I develop software for a living.

[[email protected]]

Best solution so far:
Navigragh subscription with charts and data for a plane that uses that data in it's avionics.

fsAerodata to update P3D data not necessary. Prepared is only for visual or VFR. I did notice that ATC had airport and tower names rather than ICAO letters after the fsAerodata update. All nav data and flight planning data coming from Navigraph data to Little Nav Maps and Avionics in plane.

Little Nav Maps for flight planning with the same data that gets updated with a download from Navigraph.

I'm sorry to say that I had to buy a Caranado plane with their Navigraph Ext Package for the avionics that gets updated by a download from Navigraph.

I hope that the A2A flight sim gurus will follow their lead and produce an A2A addon Navigraph package that can be used for the A2A fleet. I actually prefer the A2A planes because of the meticulous attention to detail that goes into them. They are the best for VFR training but I need the Navigraph Extension Package for IFR flight and training. The extension packages are also an additional source of revenue for A2A!

I am not a programmer but I think A2A should rework their existing GPS's to use Navigraph data and release it as an extension pack. Navigraph produces downloads for many planes, avionics and Little Nav Map. A2A's Navigraph Ext in the list will add an additional source of customers and revenue as the IFR flight sim community catches on to A2A's new IFR capability.

Thanks again for all the help. It was a major learning experience. I would like to be your first customer for the Navigragh Extension Pack if you decide to do it.
Mike

[Lewis - A2A]

I think you may have missed by point Mike. If you wanted to train IFR your best bet will have been one of the actual realistic GPS simulations such as the RXP or Flight1 types, these are a single click to install into our aircraft via the aircraft config app.

I think you may have gone around the houses a bit for what should have been a quite simple procedure to add a realistic GPS to your aircraft.

thanks,
Lewis