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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:09 pm 
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Morning all,
I have made an switch panel that interfaces via simconnect. everything works perfectly apart from the magneto's. its a very odd issue that im trying to figure out.
if i start with the magneto's in "OFF - BOTH". i can switch them back and forth all day long between OFF - BOTH. they work perfect. switching perfectly. however. Once i switch them from BOTH to START and return to BOTH they sit at "START" in sim. then from then onwards they appear to be 1 position out BOTH on Panel = START in sim, RIGHT (on panel) = BOTH (in sim), LEFT (on panel) = RIGHT (in sim), and OFF (on panel) you guessed it! LEFT (in sim)
I thought it was poor coding skills that somehow did it. but, after trying in other birds it works perfectly (Non A2A)
So i was wondering what would be causing this? has anyone else run into this issue?

Thanks
SirGr3mlin


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:21 pm 
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This is something I've been dealing with for some time and still seeking help (if any exists). I'm using FSUIPC and do not (necessarily) share the same results you are getting.

If I remember right, my switch goes to any position I "command" it to go (panel and sim), except for when I go to START, if the engine does not actually "start" it stays in "START" until I (using my mouse) turn the key to "off" in the sim. I cannot "command" the (sim) key until the engine starts or I (using mouse) turn sim key to "off". Then both keys go to the desired position. (both, R, L, Off)

I think it's inherent to the simulator, (A2A?) and I have not tested this on any other aircraft because they typically start without issue. (I suppose I could pull the mixture and try it on a P3D aircraft and see what the results are).

Are you using FSUIPC? What bindings are you setting the key switch positions to? Again, mine work great, with the exception of starting the engine (if it does not actually start).

Hope I conveyed myself appropriately.

TB2

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:03 am 
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TBryson2 wrote:
This is something I've been dealing with for some time and still seeking help (if any exists). I'm using FSUIPC and do not (necessarily) share the same results you are getting.

I think we are experiencing the exact same issue, interestingly for a test, i just jumped in sim and flicked it to start, and it stayed there indefinitely, until the battery gave up. or the starter motor.. or both..

TBryson2 wrote:
If I remember right, my switch goes to any position I "command" it to go (panel and sim), except for when I go to START, if the engine does not actually "start" it stays in "START" until I (using my mouse) turn the key to "off" in the sim. I cannot "command" the (sim) key until the engine starts or I (using mouse) turn sim key to "off". Then both keys go to the desired position. (both, R, L, Off)

Thats exactly what im facing right now, i have come up with some idea's to try and 'Patch' the issue. but yet to test... and now i've just tested it.. no... so basically it looks like the sim believes the ignition is on BOTH as if you try just simply decreasing it 1 position it actually stops at LEFT. even after trying to decrease more to get it to OFF. strange.

TBryson2 wrote:
I think it's inherent to the simulator, (A2A?) and I have not tested this on any other aircraft because they typically start without issue. (I suppose I could pull the mixture and try it on a P3D aircraft and see what the results are).
Are you using FSUIPC? What bindings are you setting the key switch positions to? Again, mine work great, with the exception of starting the engine (if it does not actually start).

I was going to use FSUIPC, but i actually just wrote a quick little dirty program that interfaces into simconnect.
but yeah, everything else works well.
TBryson2 wrote:
Hope I conveyed myself appropriately.

TB2

You did indeed. thank you! ;-)
will have to have a better look in the morning.

SirGr3mlin


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:05 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:37 am
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I've had this issue as well. The only solution I could come up with was to have on-press of the switch to go to the required offset, but send the on-release state to go back to off. So in other words, as you flick the switch back from "start" to "both", what the sim sees is "Start">"Off">"Both" in rapid succession. It doesn't affect the engine as the switch is so quick. It also means that you can do your run up checks as well, which is where my issues were.

If anyone has a better way I would love to hear about it, as occasionally the release state of the previous location on my rotary switch comes after the on state of the next location, so I end up fumbling around with the switch before the engine dies.

Cheers


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:26 am 
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Hello SirGr3mlin - welcome to the forums.

Please can you let us know what form your hardware magneto switch takes? I'm guessing it's a four-position rotary selector or similar.

The 'C172 Input Configurator' (available from the Windows Start Menu) provides magneto shortcuts which are designed to operate the system using two switches: one to rotate the key right and the other to rotate left.

Depending on your hardware, you may be able to achieve the result you're after by assigning the former to the 'start' position of your switch. The function is called "magento inc." in the input configurator.

Thanks,
Nick


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:02 am 
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Hi Nick

Sorry for diving in on the OP's behalf, but that doesn't really work unless you use a rotary encoder. If you are using a rotary switch, you can only set an instruction per position.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:38 am 
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Hi Sunjunkiesi,

True, but if you use a rotary switch and you assign that "magento inc." function for when it's in the start position (keeping whatever you've already got assigned for 'L', 'R' and 'both') because the switch must already be in the 'both' position before you move it to 'start', my guess is that this may solve the issue being described. I can't test it myself (no advanced hardware) but maybe worth a try?

I think at least a couple of variables are being manipulated here. Michal K may be able to elaborate a bit more when he's around.

Thanks,
Nick


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:12 pm 
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Airman Basic

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:58 pm
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Sunjunkiesi wrote:
I've had this issue as well. The only solution I could come up with was to have on-press of the switch to go to the required offset, but send the on-release state to go back to off. So in other words, as you flick the switch back from "start" to "both", what the sim sees is "Start">"Off">"Both" in rapid succession. It doesn't affect the engine as the switch is so quick. It also means that you can do your run up checks as well, which is where my issues were.

Oh really? to off!? hmm, ok i will have to try that. I did try on-release to both. but not off. thanks for that.

Nick - A2A wrote:
Hello SirGr3mlin - welcome to the forums.
Please can you let us know what form your hardware magneto switch takes? I'm guessing it's a four-position rotary selector or similar.
The 'C172 Input Configurator' (available from the Windows Start Menu) provides magneto shortcuts which are designed to operate the system using two switches: one to rotate the key right and the other to rotate left.
Depending on your hardware, you may be able to achieve the result you're after by assigning the former to the 'start' position of your switch. The function is called "magento inc." in the input configurator.

Thanks Nick! glad to be here! :-)
Currently i have setup a test pad with 5 momentary buttons on it to figure out what was going on. but the switch will be a 5 way rotary switch, which is feeding a single analog channel and im just pulling the Axis value.
I had played with the input configurator and found that if i bound 2 of the buttons it did go all the way back to the off position. however it also seems to go from START > RIGHT. not both. which is somewhat odd.

Sorry about the slow replies. im current studying for my AirLaw exam, which is tomorrow. i will try to reply if i get a chance.
SirGr3mlin


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:58 pm
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Nick - A2A wrote:
Hi Sunjunkiesi,

True, but if you use a rotary switch and you assign that "magento inc." function for when it's in the start position (keeping whatever you've already got assigned for 'L', 'R' and 'both') because the switch must already be in the 'both' position before you move it to 'start', my guess is that this may solve the issue being described. I can't test it myself (no advanced hardware) but maybe worth a try?


Thanks Nick for the suggestion, i changed the code to make it MAGNETO_INCR when swtiching to the start position. and found that when it is in the 'BOTH' position, it doesnt accept and MAGNETO_INCR event. i thought maybe it was the code, but if i have the ignition on "LEFT" and press the button assigned to 'START' it increase the position 1 to RIGHT. then letting it go goes to LEFT again. so its working as should be. but for some reasons the A2A plane doesnt accept that EVENT.
any other ideas?

OK, i changed it to trigger to "MAGNETO_START" event id. then on release it calls a "MANGETO_DECR" event.
i can, move the ignition from OFF ~ BOTH and back without issue, Once i call the MAGNETO_START event (turning key to START) it seems to go all wrong from there. it does return to 'both' on releasing but then if i move it to from 'both' to anything else it throws it off +1 again and isn't in the correct location.
i even tried having the release events as MAGNETO_OFF. (as suggested by Sunjunkiesi) same thing. different code.
:S I dont have any other A2A plane i cant try this in. but i know it works in other aircraft.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:21 am 
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Hi SirGr3mlin,

Sorry - I think you misunderstand my advice. I suggested using the "magneto inc." function in the input configurator for the start position/button on your hardware, not the default P3D "MAGNETO INCR" control.

I just did a quick test with 5 buttons on my joystick and the following seems to work perfectly:

OFF = FSUIPC "magneto off"
R = FSUIPC "magneto right"
L = FSUIPC "magneto left"
BOTH = FSUIPC "magneto both"
START = Input Configurator "Magneto Inc."

The only caveat is that if you hit the button assigned to 'start' when the VC switch is in anything other than the 'both' position, it'll just advance the VC switch, not place it in the start position. However, this wouldn't matter with a rotary switch.

Thanks,
Nick

P.S. Best of luck with the exam. :)


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:07 pm 
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Nick - A2A wrote:
Hi SirGr3mlin,

Sorry - I think you misunderstand my advice. I suggested using the "magneto inc." function in the input configurator for the start position/button on your hardware, not the default P3D "MAGNETO INCR" control.

I just did a quick test with 5 buttons on my joystick and the following seems to work perfectly:

OFF = FSUIPC "magneto off"
R = FSUIPC "magneto right"
L = FSUIPC "magneto left"
BOTH = FSUIPC "magneto both"
START = Input Configurator "Magneto Inc."

The only caveat is that if you hit the button assigned to 'start' when the VC switch is in anything other than the 'both' position, it'll just advance the VC switch, not place it in the start position. However, this wouldn't matter with a rotary switch.

Thanks,
Nick

P.S. Best of luck with the exam. :)

Thanks, the exam when well, now i have to just get back into flying! ;-)
SO, with this project. i have now tried.....

1/ Coding the keyswitch as a rotary encoder. basically a single position clockwise: pulses button 31, single position anticlockwise: pulses button 30. then i just mapped those keys in the "Input Configurator" for mag inc and dec.
result: - both the sim and hardware set in the OFF position, turning from OFF to BOTH and back works well.
- BOTH to START, works well.
- START back to BOTH, doesnt work well at all, the ignition moves to the Left position.

2/ Coding the keyswitch with button presses mapped to the positions. using FSUIPC or SIMCONNECT for OFF-BOTH and START via INPUT CONFIGURATOR
Results: - starting with both sim and hardware set to the OFF position, turning from OFF to BOTH and back works perfectly.
- BOTH to START Works perfectly.
- On START to BOTH : sim moves to LEFT. not BOTH.

So basically no luck. :S


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:05 pm 
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Nick - A2A wrote:
Hi SirGr3mlin,

I just did a quick test with 5 buttons on my joystick and the following seems to work perfectly:

OFF = FSUIPC "magneto off"
R = FSUIPC "magneto right"
L = FSUIPC "magneto left"
BOTH = FSUIPC "magneto both"
START = Input Configurator "Magneto Inc."



You say this works perfectly? Does that include when the engine won’t start? You can switch off the starter with a (real) keyswitch if it doesn’t start? (As in a car or real airplane?)

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:29 am 
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TBryson2 wrote:
You say this works perfectly? Does that include when the engine won’t start? You can switch off the starter with a (real) keyswitch if it doesn’t start? (As in a car or real airplane?)
Yes, it did in my tests with buttons anyway. It's worth bearing in mind that some of the options available via the A2A input configurators are more sophisticated than basic FSUIPC events, and in the case of the "Magneto Inc." function in the Cessnas, some conditional spring loading of the switch is simulated. If the switch is held in the 'start' position, the VC control will remain in this position until the engine starts, whereupon it spring loads back to 'both', just as you'd allow it to do with the real thing. However, if the engine doesn't start, the switch will remain in the 'start' position as long as you hold it, only returning to the 'both' position when released.

SirGr3mlin - have you tried the specific approach that I suggested? As mentioned above, the 'magneto inc.' function in the input configurator simulates the spring loading of the switch, so you don't need to program it to go back from 'start' to 'both' and this seems to be where you're having problems.

Thanks,
Nick


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:38 pm 
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Nick - A2A wrote:
SirGr3mlin - have you tried the specific approach that I suggested? As mentioned above, the 'magneto inc.' function in the input configurator simulates the spring loading of the switch, so you don't need to program it to go back from 'start' to 'both' and this seems to be where you're having problems.

Thanks,
Nick

Hi ya Nick, yes, i tried having only a MAG INC, it just refuses to follow commands if the engine doesnt fire.
another test i did, was to program 2 separate buttons in as MAG INC and MAG DEC on pressing the MAG INC button to get it to the START position, like you suggested it just sat there turning over. (obviously if it was ready to actually start it would have fired up and released it to the BOTH position.) however, if you decided its not going to fire up and press the MAG DEC button 1 time. it skips BOTH and goes straight to LEFT.

Give it a shot. keep your mixture pulled. and see if it does it your end as well.

Chris


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:02 pm 
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Hi Chris,

The suggestion I made above is for a starter switch with 5 positions which I've tested using 5 hardware buttons (I don't have a rotary ignition type switch). As mentioned, this uses a combo of FSUIPC events along with the "Magneto Inc." function from the A2A Input Configurator.

To reiterate:

    Button 1: OFF = FSUIPC "magneto off"
    Button 2: R = FSUIPC "magneto right"
    Button 3: L = FSUIPC "magneto left"
    Button 4: BOTH = FSUIPC "magneto both"
    Button 5: START = Input Configurator "Magneto Inc."

Have you tried these exact button press assignments for each of the respective positions of your rotary switch? Note that "magneto dec" isn't used at all if we're using 5 hardware positions in this way.

With this assignment, you press and hold button 5 to move the switch from the 'both' position and turn the starter motor. If the engine doesn't start and continues to crank, releasing button 5 will allow the switch to return to the 'both' position killing the starter. If the engine does start, the switch will return to 'both' anyway, irrespective of whether you release it or not.

So, what's important for your rotary switch assignment is that when you manually turn this back one position from 'start' to 'both', you're telling it to set the control to both and not decrease the VC control by one position. Therefore, whether the VC switch is already in the 'both' position (i.e. following a successful start) or the 'start' position (i.e. if it's still cranking), it should behave as expected.

It's not the easiest thing to explain, but I've done my best. :)

Thanks,
Nick


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