Am I using the trim wheel correctly?

[Still Learning]

One way I can do this is, get to my desired airspeed, by adjusting the pitch, keep my eyes on the nose on the nose of the plane to see if it is sinking or rising. Then I remember what R. Machado said, on landings, in the lesson where he had you set up flying through the rectangles. If I'm remembering this right, he said (basically) if you find you are losing too much alt. increase throttle. Conversely, if you are gaining altitude, control your rate of descent with the throttle. (The goal being to maintain a -500 fpm descent.)

So, it's that line of thinking that I use, to try to a) level off or b) trim out the airspeed to an airspeed. But I notice when decrease the throttle, it has an indirect effect on airspeed. So, If I'm going 100kts, then lower my RPMs to 2100 or 2200 or so it will lower my airspeed to something like 80 kts. But if I increase to gain a/s, I'll gain altitude. Oddly enough, on yesterdays flight I was able to maintain my airspeed at roughly 100kts, which makes a difference over 60 some odd NM.

Would it be possible to: adjust pitch for a/s, and then trim out by adjusting power, then trim all the while holding the yoke steady. Citing R. Machado's landing exercise, (above,) wouldn't that work?

Just to complicate matters, I can trim the a/c for a -500 descent. So, if I can do that, I should - "should" being the operative word - be able to trim it out for a) an airspeed, and b) to hold an altitude.

Out of curiosity: I was cruising the net on this very issue, and landed in one of the aviation forums. It was about is it easier to trim the a/c in real life? It was a resounding yes. FS is much more trickier to trim. They never mentioned the a/c they were talking about, payware or otherwise. After having read that thread, my question is, can the C17 be trimmed out or is it as tricky or finicky as they said, because it is part of the FSX platform, and not a real trim wheel in a real C-172?

Still Learning

[DHenriques_]

One way I can do this is, get to my desired airspeed, by adjusting the pitch, keep my eyes on the nose on the nose of the plane to see if it is sinking or rising. Then I remember what R. Machado said, on landings, in the lesson where he had you set up flying through the rectangles. If I'm remembering this right, he said (basically) if you find you are losing too much alt. increase throttle. Conversely, if you are gaining altitude, control your rate of descent with the throttle. (The goal being to maintain a -500 fpm descent.)

So, it's that line of thinking that I use, to try to a) level off or b) trim out the airspeed to an airspeed. But I notice when decrease the throttle, it has an indirect effect on airspeed. So, If I'm going 100kts, then lower my RPMs to 2100 or 2200 or so it will lower my airspeed to something like 80 kts. But if I increase to gain a/s, I'll gain altitude. Oddly enough, on yesterdays flight I was able to maintain my airspeed at roughly 100kts, which makes a difference over 60 some odd NM.

Would it be possible to: adjust pitch for a/s, and then trim out by adjusting power, then trim all the while holding the yoke steady. Citing R. Machado's landing exercise, (above,) wouldn't that work?

Just to complicate matters, I can trim the a/c for a -500 descent. So, if I can do that, I should - "should" being the operative word - be able to trim it out for a) an airspeed, and b) to hold an altitude.

Out of curiosity: I was cruising the net on this very issue, and landed in one of the aviation forums. It was about is it easier to trim the a/c in real life? It was a resounding yes. FS is much more trickier to trim. They never mentioned the a/c they were talking about, payware or otherwise. After having read that thread, my question is, can the C17 be trimmed out or is it as tricky or finicky as they said, because it is part of the FSX platform, and not a real trim wheel in a real C-172?

Still Learning

The proper way to trim an airplane always follows the same pattern; nose; power; trim.
You establish a nose attitude, adjust the power, then trim the aircraft.
Dudley Henriques

[mallcott]

Machado is referencing ONLY the final approach phase, NOT all phases of flight.

You already have the fullest possible explanation of how trim differs in the sim from real life and why in the forums right here, one of the best repositories of practical and peer-reviewed advice and guidance for FSX and P3D anywhere on the net. It is far harder to trim an aircraft in the sims than real life.

[DHenriques_]

Machado is referencing ONLY the final approach phase, NOT all phases of flight.

Works the same way ALL the time. Final is no different than anywhere else in the sky. You establish descent or glide with nose attitude, adjust the power for the proper sink rate or glide, then you trim the aircraft. Using trim before doing the other two constitutes flying the aircraft with the trim and THAT will require constant adjustment and readjustment.
As to approach, the axiom that power controls altitude and pitch controls airspeed is a valid one, BUT many who profess to expound on this fall short of the more correct explanation that ALL adjustments made to either power or pitch affect the other so in effect it's the proper balancing of these two factors that form the way the aircraft is ACTUALLY FLOWN.
Dudley Henriques

[Still Learning]

Machado is referencing ONLY the final approach phase, NOT all phases of flight.

You already have the fullest possible explanation of how trim differs in the sim from real life and why in the forums right here, one of the best repositories of practical and peer-reviewed advice and guidance for FSX and P3D anywhere on the net. It is far harder to trim an aircraft in the sims than real life.

I've seen "Sim CFI" and "CountryFlyBoy" trim out their A2A C172 on YouTube, and they made it look so easy.

But then again, I've always believed: "If it looks easy - its not."

So, I presume, this much is doable in a A2A 172 a/c...

Still Learning

[DHenriques_]

Machado is referencing ONLY the final approach phase, NOT all phases of flight.

You already have the fullest possible explanation of how trim differs in the sim from real life and why in the forums right here, one of the best repositories of practical and peer-reviewed advice and guidance for FSX and P3D anywhere on the net. It is far harder to trim an aircraft in the sims than real life.

I've seen "Sim CFI" and "CountryFlyBoy" trim out their A2A C172 on YouTube, and they made it look so easy.

But then again, I've always believed: "If it looks easy - its not."

So, I presume, this much is doable in a A2A 172 a/c...

Still Learning

It's harder in the sim than in the actual airplane mostly because of controller sensitivity. If you can afford a small investent I highly recommend obtaining the Saitek Trim Wheel. Once assigned to the trim axis in the simulator the trim behavior is much improved over say the repeat function in the sim settings.
Dudley Henriques

[Still Learning]

I would get that - along with the throttle quadrant - in a heartbeat.


I've have two desks, the only reason for that is, when I bought my first desk, the keyboard "roll-a-way" shelf, was only long enough to accommodate just the keyboard. This desk, the "new" desk, (I've only had it for 20 years or more) LOL. has a keyboard "roll-a-way" shelf that can fit the keyboard and the mouse.

So now I have 2 desks, and theoretically, space isn't an issue. Practically speaking, it's the 'ole "Give 'em an inch, they'll take a mile."

You know it has a keyboard "roll-a-way" shelf for the keyboard, that sits roughly 3.8x inches below the bottom of the desk begins. And that piece of wood is roughly, 1 inch thick. So, the bottom line is, I have 3.8x inches to play with.

But wait! It gets worse! To the right of the keyboard "roll-a-way," there is my one and only solitary desk drawer, which for all intents and purposes, finishes off the desk, except for a gap of maybe an inch, perhaps, I've never measured it. Picture a square box with an open bottom.

My question is, can I get the trim wheel mounted to my desk in only 3.8x inches of available space?

Please feel free to add comments or suggestions...

Still Learning

[DHenriques_]

I would get that - along with the throttle quadrant - in a heartbeat.


I've have two desks, the only reason for that is, when I bought my first desk, the keyboard "roll-a-way" shelf, was only long enough to accommodate just the keyboard. This desk, the "new" desk, (I've only had it for 20 years or more) LOL. has a keyboard "roll-a-way" shelf that can fit the keyboard and the mouse.

So now I have 2 desks, and theoretically, space isn't an issue. Practically speaking, it's the 'ole "Give 'em an inch, they'll take a mile."

You know it has a keyboard "roll-a-way" shelf for the keyboard, that sits roughly 3.8x inches below the bottom of the desk begins. And that piece of wood is roughly, 1 inch thick. So, the bottom line is, I have 3.8x inches to play with.

But wait! It gets worse! To the right of the keyboard "roll-a-way," there is my one and only solitary desk drawer, which for all intents and purposes, finishes off the desk, except for a gap of maybe an inch, perhaps, I've never measured it. Picture a square box with an open bottom.

My question is, can I get the trim wheel mounted to my desk in only 3.8x inches of available space?

Please feel free to add comments or suggestions...

Still Learning

Can you post a picture of the desk?
DH

[Still Learning]

That should do it. Any questions, let me know.

Still Learning

[DHenriques_]

That should do it. Any questions, let me know.

Still Learning

OK....just throwing this out here for you. That trim wheel comes with a mounting bracket that can be jury rigged a bit. The way I'm looking at your setup you could mount it UNDER the left corner of the desk with the wheel sticking out just far enough to use it just like it would be in the real airplane. I think that kind of mounting would work well in your situation.
DH

[Still Learning]

Are you saying to mount it to the roll-a-way shelf and have it sit under there - to the right of the keyboard?

[Lewis - A2A]

Using trim before doing the other two constitutes flying the aircraft with the trim and THAT will require constant adjustment and readjustment.

This I have noted is an issue many flight simmers get as a bad habit due to I assume consistent bad trim simulation normally due to the limitations on technology, which is why many in have had issues adjusting to our more accurate trim modelling. Most noticeable was how many complained about the speed, (which whilst an issue that was fixed and noted to be caused by the multiple ways of mapping in the sim), if flying the aircraft using primary controls and trim to aid those controls rather than replace those controls the speed of the trim for those final adjustments you only really need slow.

[mallcott]

Using trim before doing the other two constitutes flying the aircraft with the trim and THAT will require constant adjustment and readjustment.

This I have noted is an issue many flight simmers get as a bad habit due to I assume consistent bad trim simulation normally due to the limitations on technology, which is why many in have had issues adjusting to our more accurate trim modelling. Most noticeable was how many complained about the speed, (which whilst an issue that was fixed and noted to be caused by the multiple ways of mapping in the sim), if flying the aircraft using primary controls and trim to aid those controls rather than replace those controls the speed of the trim for those final adjustments you only really need slow.

True, Lewis, but it does imply an understanding of the differences in the slider setting when allocating trim control for each surface, and understanding how that impacts on the speeding up of the trim surface response over time. Perhaps something for a future A2A POH addition?

[DHenriques_]

Using trim before doing the other two constitutes flying the aircraft with the trim and THAT will require constant adjustment and readjustment.

This I have noted is an issue many flight simmers get as a bad habit due to I assume consistent bad trim simulation normally due to the limitations on technology, which is why many in have had issues adjusting to our more accurate trim modelling. Most noticeable was how many complained about the speed, (which whilst an issue that was fixed and noted to be caused by the multiple ways of mapping in the sim), if flying the aircraft using primary controls and trim to aid those controls rather than replace those controls the speed of the trim for those final adjustments you only really need slow.

True, Lewis, but it does imply an understanding of the differences in the slider setting when allocating trim control for each surface, and understanding how that impacts on the speeding up of the trim surface response over time. Perhaps something for a future A2A POH addition?

Before I started using the trim wheel from Saitek I did as a lot of people do and assigned it to a hat on the stick in the FSX settings with the repeat slider all the way right. It stunk but worked. The speed was way off but I lived with it by tickling the hat and using trim carefully like I would electric trim in a jet fighter. The trim wheel is smooth. It has it's little issues as well if the truth be known. The driver installs itself each time you use FSX but that's not a big issue. You just bring up the plane you want to use then move the trim wheel a few inches. There's a hiccup on the screen and the trim becomes active after that. Small price to pay for having the wheel. The Auto Pilot behavior is still there as well. You have to be careful coming out of Auto Pilot as there can be a radical pitch change as the trim resets.
Other than that the trim wheel is a huge plus for sim use.
And the same trim method is used as always.......Nose....power.......trim.
Dudley Henriques

[Still Learning]

I totally get how to trim an aircraft. It's one thing to understand the concept. It's quite another thing to affect that change using a rocker switch. (it's the one on the top of the yoke, right hand side) in the photograph I posted.

So, Dudley, where would you mount the Trim wheel? On keyboard the roll-a-way shelf? By the way, I'm having a hard time finding one for a decent price. Any ideas as to what websites to check?

Would it improve things if I used the trim wheel on the C172's panel and moved it with the mouse, or would that amount to the same thing as using the rocker switch?

Still Learning