SOLVED - Left Wing flies Low - Cannot hold heading

Post any technical issues here. This forum gets priority from our staff.
User avatar
RMM
Airman First Class
Posts: 74
Joined: 24 Nov 2015, 17:49

SOLVED - Left Wing flies Low - Cannot hold heading

Post by RMM »

Working hard to get my realism better with my Iris Yoke / FS Force with force feedback so I can re-start RW Training soon.
Flying in P3D.

My problem is that I cannot stay on a heading due to the left wing flying low.

Power at 2100, no flaps... with an outside view from the tail looking forward, I can see in the VC that with my controls and artificial horizon showing level flight, the outside window view shows aircraft is actually holding the left wing low.
So of course, I drift off the desired heading. Fighting the aileron to hold that left wing up is not the right solution.

What is the cause? What is the fix?

Thanks
RMM
Last edited by RMM on 20 Jan 2017, 20:47, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
mallcott
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 455
Joined: 13 Nov 2016, 12:19
Location: UK

Re: Left Wing flies Low - Cannot hold heading

Post by mallcott »

RMM wrote:Working hard to get my realism better with my Iris Yoke / FS Force with force feedback so I can re-start RW Training soon.
Flying in P3D.

My problem is that I cannot stay on a heading due to the left wing flying low.

Power at 2100, no flaps... with an outside view from the tail looking forward, I can see in the VC that with my controls and artificial horizon showing level flight, the outside window view shows aircraft is actually holding the left wing low.
So of course, I drift off the desired heading. Fighting the aileron to hold that left wing up is not the right solution.

What is the cause? What is the fix?

Thanks
RMM
Cause is exaggerated imbalance due to offset weight.

Cure is to balance the weight.

This is actually a good real world practise.

User avatar
RMM
Airman First Class
Posts: 74
Joined: 24 Nov 2015, 17:49

Re: Left Wing flies Low - Cannot hold heading

Post by RMM »

Never saw this before in FSX with the built in C172. I am pre-Solo so cannot personally relate to RW flight.
I will ask my CFI about this. Seems odd that sitting in the left seat solo would cause the left wing to fly low. [Edited this sentence to remove "drop a wing".]
I send the airplane to the hangar and have it in "Like New" condition.

A little left turning tendency .. that is normal for sure.
But flying continuously with left wing low? [Edited to remove "dropping a wing".]

RMM
Last edited by RMM on 20 Jan 2017, 19:28, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Piper_EEWL
Chief Master Sergeant
Posts: 4544
Joined: 26 Nov 2014, 14:14
Location: Germany

Re: Left Wing flies Low - Cannot hold heading

Post by Piper_EEWL »

Add a passenger on the co-pilots seat with the same weight as the pilot. Also make sure your fuel levels are balanced.
B377&COTS, J3 Cub, B-17G, Spitfire, P-40, P-51D, C172, C182, Pa28, Pa24, T-6 Texan, L-049&COTS, Bonanza V35B

User avatar
Oracle427
Chief Master Sergeant
Posts: 3916
Joined: 02 Sep 2013, 19:30
Location: 3N6
Contact:

Re: Left Wing flies Low - Cannot hold heading

Post by Oracle427 »

I would be very cautious about using the sim for pre-solo practice without close involvement of your CFI. The behavior of the different C172 models and specific aircraft can vary a bit from one to the other. I have flown 5 different C172S that all have their own different characteristics. I also flew a 172N that is quite different from the S models.

It is very unclear what you mean to distinguish by a low wing vs dropping a wing. If you find that the aircraft keeps trying to quickly roll left then do make sure that your joystick is properly calibrated. That does need to be done from time to time and can be a source of many problems.

One must constantly fly the aircraft and that requires making many small corrections to keep it straight and level. It is a rare day that one can remove the hands from the yoke for any length of time.

Personally, I've never noticed any imbalance in a C172 from having a 170lb passenger or an empty right seat. They always seem to fly the same either way and I think that is because the pilot and passenger are seated so close to the center line and basically rubbing shoulders. However, a fuel imbalance of about 20 gallons will definitely be noticeable as I did encounter that once. I've never experimented with this in the sim, so I'm not sure how it relates.
Flight Simmer since 1983. PP ASEL IR Tailwheel
N28021 1979 Super Viking 17-30A

User avatar
RMM
Airman First Class
Posts: 74
Joined: 24 Nov 2015, 17:49

Re: Left Wing flies Low - Cannot hold heading

Post by RMM »

I have about 60 hours of RW training but have lapsed in my lessons for about three years. I treat my P3D sim like a unique aircraft and am fully prepared for the difference when I start lessons again. The words of caution are well received! My CFI is coming over this week to fly my sim. So I want to resolve this problem.

Regarding the low wing... should not say the wing is dropping. Tried to describe my efforts at straight and level flight.
Went back and edited my earlier post. Thanks.

I have to hold the yoke against the right wing constantly in order to be wings level.
Something is not right here.

And yes, I don't accept that I have to have a passenger to fly straight and level. I do understand the need for small adjustments. But continuously pulling the left wing up is just not right.

Why is this happening?
RMM

User avatar
Oracle427
Chief Master Sergeant
Posts: 3916
Joined: 02 Sep 2013, 19:30
Location: 3N6
Contact:

Re: Left Wing flies Low - Cannot hold heading

Post by Oracle427 »

Did you recalibrate your joystick? The last time I started having handling issues I found that my joystick was way out of calibration.
Flight Simmer since 1983. PP ASEL IR Tailwheel
N28021 1979 Super Viking 17-30A

speedy70
Senior Master Sergeant
Posts: 1876
Joined: 28 Aug 2008, 18:01
Location: Devon,UK

Re: Left Wing flies Low - Cannot hold heading

Post by speedy70 »

The aircraft is not balanced as Mallcott said.

Check that your wing fuel tanks are equal and the aircraft trim is set correctly.

Maybe your yoke is also not set correctly.

Cheers Chris

User avatar
RMM
Airman First Class
Posts: 74
Joined: 24 Nov 2015, 17:49

SOLVED - Re: Left Wing flies Low - Cannot hold heading

Post by RMM »

Followed your advice. Recalibrated the Iris Yoke and made sure the fuel tanks were level.

New condition from Hangar Check.

Very noticeable difference. Minimal drift.
Used a spot view to site if wings were level. Had to work with lots of small corrections to hold the heading.

Seems quite normal now. Certainly, I no longer fight the low wing. My landing was still a mess. When I get that down in the sim, I will move on to some maneuvers.

Thanks a lot !! Serious problem. Simple Solution.

RMM

User avatar
mallcott
Staff Sergeant
Posts: 455
Joined: 13 Nov 2016, 12:19
Location: UK

Re: SOLVED - Re: Left Wing flies Low - Cannot hold heading

Post by mallcott »

RMM wrote:Followed your advice. Recalibrated the Iris Yoke and made sure the fuel tanks were level.

New condition from Hangar Check.

Very noticeable difference. Minimal drift.
Used a spot view to site if wings were level. Had to work with lots of small corrections to hold the heading.

Seems quite normal now. Certainly, I no longer fight the low wing. My landing was still a mess. When I get that down in the sim, I will move on to some maneuvers.

Thanks a lot !! Serious problem. Simple Solution.

RMM
Think of it as the equivalent of having the rigging checked on your real aircraft.

Your sim does, as I mentioned in my previous reply, exaggerate the effect of off-centre weight - which is why it's good real world practise. Most average GA pilots just check the fuel tanks, then throw the weight in the back.
Be better-than-average by confirming the lateral disposition of all weight AND fuel, and be prepared to balance the combination by use of `clever` fueling or by use of the left/right tanks appropriately. The sim is really good at this because it IS exaggerated. :arrow:

User avatar
RMM
Airman First Class
Posts: 74
Joined: 24 Nov 2015, 17:49

Re: SOLVED - Left Wing flies Low - Cannot hold heading

Post by RMM »

Update after some more pattern practice.

For those who may find this thread helpful...some more learning took place today.

First - I discovered the SHIFT+4 access to fuel and payload settings. Dohh. Dummies guide for newbies or vice versa.

I have now added a passenger in the right seat and made sure that fuel is balanced.
Tweaking the sensitivity for the aileron function of the Iris Yoke in P3D also is helping.
( I am using FS Force and am NOT using FSUIPC )

Now I will add FSFlyingSchool and let their instructors have a go at me. The sim is helping me retrain for monitoring the instruments.
I am working hard to keep my outside view going 90% of the time.

Thanks for the care and guidance!!

RMM
Last edited by RMM on 05 Nov 2017, 05:16, edited 1 time in total.

FunktasticLucky
Airman
Posts: 21
Joined: 19 Dec 2016, 13:05

Re: SOLVED - Left Wing flies Low - Cannot hold heading

Post by FunktasticLucky »

Off topic here. But how are you enjoying that Iris yoke? I'm still on the fence and am leaning towards the brunner atm.

speedy70
Senior Master Sergeant
Posts: 1876
Joined: 28 Aug 2008, 18:01
Location: Devon,UK

Re: SOLVED - Left Wing flies Low - Cannot hold heading

Post by speedy70 »

RMM.
Remember you are flying the aircraft using control inputs and trim adjustment constantly.Do not let the aircraft fly you.
You cannot trim out any aircraft to be perfectly balanced and able to fly itself.

Cheers Chris

User avatar
RMM
Airman First Class
Posts: 74
Joined: 24 Nov 2015, 17:49

Re: SOLVED - Left Wing flies Low - Cannot hold heading

Post by RMM »

FunktasticLucky wrote:Off topic here. But how are you enjoying that Iris yoke? I'm still on the fence and am leaning towards the brunner atm.
Not off topic at all. I noted the Iris in the OP as it was possibly relevant and was prepared for such a question in case someone asked. Frankly, I find the Iris yoke to be great for the force feedback feature. Otherwise, not so great. With some tuning of settings it is now more realistic, but not yet satisfied. I got mine on Kickstarter so the price was fair. I have some more tweaking to do to get the range of motion more in line with a real C172. If I can succeed, the Iris will be a fine device.

See these two reviews before you buy.

The Iris has come down dramatically in price from around $2,000 to $900.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWr3eoPuSqM (Comparison of the Iris and Brunner Yokes)
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysz25ascr-I (Detail review by Mark of Almost Aviation of the Yoko Yoke)

Let me know what you decide, please. Send me a PM.
RMM

User avatar
RMM
Airman First Class
Posts: 74
Joined: 24 Nov 2015, 17:49

Re: SOLVED - Left Wing flies Low - Cannot hold heading

Post by RMM »

speedy70 wrote:RMM.
Remember you are flying the aircraft using control inputs and trim adjustment constantly.Do not let the aircraft fly you.
You cannot trim out any aircraft to be perfectly balanced and able to fly itself.

Cheers Chris
Hi Chris..
Well said. And point well taken. But...Actually this is not absolutely the case. See the book by Leighton Collins, "Take Offs and Landings, and Everything In Between". Mr. Collins tells the story of a guy who hand propped his plane, but did not check carefully and did so with the throttle near full in. The airplane took off and left the area, flew around until it ran out of fuel, and was found later to have landed itself a few miles away in a vacant field. Some people are just lucky.

RMM

new reply

Return to “C172 Trainer Tech Support”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests