Mixture Lever Position Not Saved?

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LoBaron
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Mixture Lever Position Not Saved?

Post by LoBaron »

Hello!

While a minor problem, the following started to bug me a bit:

For immersion reasons, when I end a flight at a specific parking position and shut it down, I save the flight (as default) and when I next open up FSX again I start exactly from there. On shutdown I follow the RL procedures, including wheel chocks and tiedowns.

I usually kill the engine by setting the mixture to cutoff (not sure if this is correct for the 172, it surely is for a couple of other planes), so this is definitely the position when I save the flight. While all other settings seem to be remembered correctly, the mixture lever is always in the full rich position when I load the flight.

Is this a known issue or FSX limitation? The Carenado/Aerosoft a/c I own all seem to remember that setting correctly...

Thanks in advance!

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SkipperMac
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Re: Mixture Lever Position Not Saved?

Post by SkipperMac »

Yes, mine does exactly the same, and I follow the same procedure of saving the aircraft every time I use it, starting up in the same position.

Its a minor annoyance, but still an annoyance when everything else is so good.
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FlipS
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Re: Mixture Lever Position Not Saved?

Post by FlipS »

It's not recommended to use third party aircraft in the default flight. Maybe if you only use the A2A C172 there won't be any problem but some other planes will get. If you want to use other aircraft, it would be the best to use the default Aircreation or default C172 as default airplane and start the A2A C172 through Load. Maybe the mixture lever will stay in cut off position if you leave the default C172 cold and dark before you safe the default flight again.

LoBaron
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Re: Mixture Lever Position Not Saved?

Post by LoBaron »

Thanks for your comments FlipS.
FlipS wrote:It's not recommended to use third party aircraft in the default flight. Maybe if you only use the A2A C172 there won't be any problem but some other planes will get.
I have been participating and/or lurking on various FSX forums for over half a decade now and this is the first time I hear such a thing. Also, I have been using 3rd party aircraft in default flights for nearly the same timespan and up to now never experienced a problem related to that fact. I did a quick google search on the topic and turned up blank.

This obviously does not imply what you say is wrong, but my experience is different. Could you maybe point me to where you got that information from? As far as I am aware there is not much of a difference between loading up a default aircraft on fsx startup and only then then loading a saved flight with a 3rd party aircraft, and loading the 3rd party aircraft on launch directly. The only issues I can imagine to turn up are in case the 3rd party aircraft is deinstalled without changing to a different aircraft on default flight, and I do not plan to uninstall the A2A 172 in any case.
If you want to use other aircraft, it would be the best to use the default Aircreation or default C172 as default airplane and start the A2A C172 through Load. Maybe the mixture lever will stay in cut off position if you leave the default C172 cold and dark before you safe the default flight again.
Just to make sure I understand correctly: You are suggesting that I load a flight with the default 172, set it to cold and dark with mixture in cutoff position, save the flight, then load the A2A 172 and check if the mix is cutoff as well? This is an interesting suggestion but sadly would not solve my issue.

As I said, if I save a flight in a specific position and a/c condition (actually it does not interest me if it is the default flight or not, I do not think it makes much of a difference), and I load the saved flight, I would expect the aircraft to be loaded in exactly the same condition I saved it in.

So, in case I forgot to set the wheelchocks I want them to not be set on loading the flight. This also works on stuff like wheelchocks to my best knowledge, and it definitely works on other 3rd party a/c. The only aspect where I can confirm it does not work is the mixture control on the A2A 172.

I would like to know is whether this is a (known) bug or an FSX limitation and whether it is possible to fix it.

FlipS
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Re: Mixture Lever Position Not Saved?

Post by FlipS »

For instance: http://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtop ... 82#p283392 and http://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtop ... 79#p273056.
As far as I know it's even strongly recommended bij PMDG to use a default airplane in the default flight.

It is because complex add ons such as A2A and PMDG add a lot of software that isn't part of FSX. In my experience most aircraft start with the controls as I have left them in the default flight. For instance: some airplanes have no fuel selector. I have to leave open the fuel selector of the airplane in the default flight; otherwise airplanes without fuel selector can't be started. Unless I'm doing something other wrong ...

LoBaron
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Re: Mixture Lever Position Not Saved?

Post by LoBaron »

Ok FlipS, thank you for the links and the suggestion! Will play around a bit with a default a/c and report back. I really did not know about this recommendation.

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Re: Mixture Lever Position Not Saved?

Post by rotrhed »

Lobaron, I've done the same thing with the A2A C172 and the mixture is in the same spot I left it. Do you have hardware controls like a throttle quadrant? Could those be getting bumped to full rich while the sim is off then when the 172 loads, it reads your controls?

LoBaron
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Re: Mixture Lever Position Not Saved?

Post by LoBaron »

FlipS wrote:For instance: http://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtop ... 82#p283392 and http://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtop ... 79#p273056.
As far as I know it's even strongly recommended bij PMDG to use a default airplane in the default flight.

It is because complex add ons such as A2A and PMDG add a lot of software that isn't part of FSX. In my experience most aircraft start with the controls as I have left them in the default flight. For instance: some airplanes have no fuel selector. I have to leave open the fuel selector of the airplane in the default flight; otherwise airplanes without fuel selector can't be started. Unless I'm doing something other wrong ...

Ok, just to be sure I am doing the right thing:

Pretend I disabled preload in the FSX config. Setting up a stock 172 flight and saving as default will be sufficient? I can load the FSX main menu, load my A2A 172 flight from there, and can launch the flight?

Or do I first need to launch the default 172 flight, and only switch over to the A2A 172 when sitting in the default cockpit? (or reenable preload which I am very reluctant to do)

FlipS
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Re: Mixture Lever Position Not Saved?

Post by FlipS »

I'm not sure about that. I once disabled preload in the FSX config. Since the troubles with starting some airplanes continued then, I restored the config and saved the stock C172 as default. I don't know if you have to launch the stock C172 in the case you disabled preload and only use the A2A one.
Maybe there will be no problem if you only use the A2A C172. I have once saved the A2A P-47 as default. As long as I didn't use any other plane, there was no problem and all settings and lever positions of the P-47 were kept. I suppose the A2A C172 is even more complex than the P-47; maybe it's not the same.

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TymK
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Re: Mixture Lever Position Not Saved?

Post by TymK »

I have the same issue with both the C172 and the Cub, i.e. certain settings are not restored when I save my flight as default and then start it from the free flight screen the next time I launch FSX (no issues when loading the flight 'manually'). I don't know the intricacies of system modeling for these planes, but my suspicion is that when FSX pre-loads your flight as default, it ignores the extra save file (*.PJ3 or *.a2a) that is used for Accu-Sim planes.

Just a guess, but maybe it makes sense...
Tym

FlipS
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Re: Mixture Lever Position Not Saved?

Post by FlipS »

I don't know. Some experiences:
Nowadays I have saved the stock C172 as default flight. I have saved flights with the A2A P-47, Spitfire and C172. The stock C172 is saved with fuel selector 'both' (open), throttle closed, mixture idle cut off.
P-47 saved with fuel selector closed, throttle closed, mixture cut off.
If I start a saved flight with the P-47, the fuel selector is closed, throttle closed, mixture full rich.
Spitfire saved with both fuel selectors closed, throttle closed, mixture cut off.
If I start a saved flight with the Spitfire: fuel selectors are open, throttle closed, mixture full rich.
A2A C172 also saved with fuel selector closed, throttle closed, mixture cut off.
If I start a saved flight with the A2A C172 the fuel selector is closed, throttle closed, mixture full rich.
This may differ in other third party add ons.
Both stock C172 and A2A C172 have a fixed pitch prop. All saved aircraft with constant speed prop always start with prop in fine pitch.
So there don't seem to be a system.
You could start an A2A aircraft en select 'cold and dark' ...

LoBaron
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Re: Mixture Lever Position Not Saved?

Post by LoBaron »

FlipS wrote:I don't know. Some experiences:
So there don't seem to be a system.
You could start an A2A aircraft en select 'cold and dark' ...
C&D option is a workaround, although, with a product that focuses so much on immersion and service life simulation, I would prefer this to be consistent with the saves as well.

As I already mentioned, I got a couple of plane addons from other 3rd party developers, and while the A2A 172 is easily the best GA plane simulation I ever bought, I never noticed this issue on other planes. If I save the Carenado Bonanza with mixture in cutoff pos., the next time I load the flight it is exactly where it should be.

LoBaron
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Re: Mixture Lever Position Not Saved?

Post by LoBaron »

TymK wrote:I have the same issue with both the C172 and the Cub, i.e. certain settings are not restored when I save my flight as default and then start it from the free flight screen the next time I launch FSX (no issues when loading the flight 'manually'). I don't know the intricacies of system modeling for these planes, but my suspicion is that when FSX pre-loads your flight as default, it ignores the extra save file (*.PJ3 or *.a2a) that is used for Accu-Sim planes.

Just a guess, but maybe it makes sense...
Tym
I missed your post. Interesting point TymK, thanks! I will doublecheck on that.

LoBaron
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Re: Mixture Lever Position Not Saved?

Post by LoBaron »

Ok, I made a first test yesterday:

Note: I still have disablePreload = 1 set in the fsx.cfg

1) launched FSX, selected the default 172, started a flight
2) set the 172 to cold&dark configuration, mixture cutoff
3) saved the flight as default flight, exited fsx
4) launched fsx, loaded up the default flight -> mixture remained in the off position
5) exited fsx
6) relaunched fsx, loaded the A2A 172, launched the flight -> mixture was in the full rich position
7) set cold&dark, saved the flight as NOT default, exited fsx
8 ) relaunched fsx, from the menu loaded the flight with the A2A 172 -> mixture in full rich position

I was able to reproduce this several times. So, at least with preload disabled, the mixture lever position does not seem to get remembered on the A2A 172. :(

I then ran a negative test with the battery master switch, interestingly it looks like this setting is remembered correctly.
To me it hints that the root cause is not related to default flight config or disablePreload setting, except if battery master position is stored somewhere else than mixture.

Do I make sense?

When I find the time I will next try the same experiement without the disablePreload setting. Any help from a dev would be apprechiated.




Edit: I do own a throttle quadrant with mixture lever, but I don´t use it. The input devices I currently use are a thrustmaster joystick with throttle lever only, and the saitek rudder pedals, thats it. I control mixture in the VC using the mouse. So I also do not think it is related to an input device.

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SkipperMac
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Re: Mixture Lever Position Not Saved?

Post by SkipperMac »

That seems to tally with my own experience. I find that the 172's mixture always loads a full rich, but I put that down to me booting FSX straight into my saved flight rather than going via the start up screen. I'm now in the habit if pushing all three quadrant levers through their full range and then setting them as desired on startup - not quite fully realistic, but works for me.

I'm interested though in a developer's perspective on how the mixture setting is saved.
SkipperMac
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