Nosewheel range

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Q_Flyer

Nosewheel range

Post by Q_Flyer »

Hi all,

Is there any flight tuning or other cfg tweak that can be made to increase the turning range of the nosewheel? .... Would increasing rudder effectiveness affect the nosewheel at all in this way? (I'm not at my FS PC for 3 days so cannot test).

I'm not concerned with what is 'realistic' any more in this regard; taxi-ing this aircraft is pretty miserable at the moment (especially with the taxi friction issue) so the ability to turn wider and avoid hitting my currently 'sticky' brakes, would be great.

I'd really appreciate it if no-one could troll the thread by 'answering' the question with; "fly the default 172". I'm asking a straightforward queston about one aspect of the model. :)

Thanks in advance.

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Scott - A2A
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Re: Nosewheel range

Post by Scott - A2A »

This has to be a controller difference and I suspect maybe in the braking, which could be again the source of any "stuck in the mud" issues.

On my system, the taxi behavior is just the best we've had in FSX.

Do you have a way to bring up the braking values in game, on FSX? The values I believe, off hand, are:

(A:BRAKE LEFT POSITION,number)
(A:BRAKE RIGHT POSITION,number)

You need to apply a little brakes to tighten the circle.

Scott.
A2A Simulations Inc.

Q_Flyer

Re: Nosewheel range

Post by Q_Flyer »

I'm not sure whether the brakes are the cause, and the taxiing problems are a symptom, but the problem either way is that at the moment at anything other than large airfields, I physically can't get around sometimes, without the aircraft taking such a wide arc that I go 'off field'.

The reason for that is because when I brake (differentially), the friction issue comes in and the aircraft stops and will not then move at all while I'm differentially braking (not even at full throttle).

So in short, I'm currently wafting around the airfields, wider than a DC-3... :mrgreen:

bliksimpie
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Re: Nosewheel range

Post by bliksimpie »

Havent tried it yet on A2A 172, but I see nose wheel deflection is limited to 35degrees, You can always change the following parameter in aircraft.cfg that will allow the nose wheel to turn more left/right

Open aircraft.cfg

Scroll down to heading [contact_points]

then move down to you find this entry:
point.0= 1, 4.056, 0.000, -3.950, 1500, 0, 0.500, 35, 0.112, 2.000, 0.700, 0.000, 0.000, 0

change the 8th value counting from 1, from 35 to 70 (or whatever value you fancy up to 90- I found 60/70 as working for me)
point.0= 1, 4.056, 0.000, -3.950, 1500, 0, 0.500, 70, 0.112, 2.000, 0.700, 0.000, 0.000, 0

Has always worked for me, so let us know if it work
Regards
JB

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Scott - A2A
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Re: Nosewheel range

Post by Scott - A2A »

The above is a kludge that will work, but keep in mind, what you are experiencing is not right but no problem with this until we find why it's happening.

We just put an update into beta and analyzing ground friction is on the list.

Scott.
A2A Simulations Inc.

N6722c
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Re: Nosewheel range

Post by N6722c »

Scott - A2A wrote:The above is a kludge that will work, but keep in mind, what you are experiencing is not right but no problem with this until we find why it's happening.

We just put an update into beta and analyzing ground friction is on the list.

Scott.
The current 25 degs value would seem to be only a little low.
Real world is more like 30 degs.
"Nose wheel steering will turn the nose wheel through a 15 degree arc each side of center. Differential braking will increase the turning arc up to 30 degrees each side of center"
"When towing with a vehicle, do not exceed the nose gear turning angle of 30 degs, or damage to the gear will result"
Geoff

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Scott - A2A
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Re: Nosewheel range

Post by Scott - A2A »

Geoff,

We did our own measurements of the front wheel deflection, but it was by eye since I couldn't find anything in the maintenance manuals to show this value. Do you have anything documented that says it is 30 deg?

Scott.
A2A Simulations Inc.

Q_Flyer

Re: Nosewheel range

Post by Q_Flyer »

Hi Scott,

I've just taxied on a paved default FSX runway, and the taxi behaviour was absolutely perfect, and was a great representation of my own taxiing experience in a 172SP.

So what this means is that you are dead right - the bad taxiing experience is part and parcel of the 'friction issues' that occur only at non-paved runways for some users. :)

I think it's useful to clarify that. Taxi'ing in this bird when the ground friction issue is not occuring is fantastic. And it only becomes an issue, when the ground friction issue is occuring.

Bliksimpie - many thanks for that workaround. 8) .... I will apply it for now, but just as soon as the friction issue in squatted, I'll go right back to the default values as per A2A.

Cheers guys.

N6722c
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Re: Nosewheel range

Post by N6722c »

Scott - A2A wrote:Geoff,

We did our own measurements of the front wheel deflection, but it was by eye since I couldn't find anything in the maintenance manuals to show this value. Do you have anything documented that says it is 30 deg?

Scott.
Yes, My old C172 Owners manual. Under Care of Plane : Ground Handling.
Also, online at
www.thunderboltair.com/.../172%20Pilot% ... ual.doc‎
Page 5.1

The "do not exceed 30 deg when towing"

===================

The other Ref, I found Online, in a C172 Pdf - "with & without Differential".
http://www.lafayetteaviation.com/forms/ ... 0Sheet.pdf

====================


By eye is difficult, you don't want to get near that prop when the plane is moving. !!

If you can find somewhere, where you can do 360's, with and without differential brakes, and see what the turning circle is, you can figure out the nosewheel angle from that.

The important thing is the smallest achievable turning circles, so you can do that realistic 180 on the runway !!
Geoff

Dingeme
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Re: Nosewheel range

Post by Dingeme »

Scott - A2A wrote:Geoff,

We did our own measurements of the front wheel deflection, but it was by eye since I couldn't find anything in the maintenance manuals to show this value. Do you have anything documented that says it is 30 deg?

Scott.
Image

This is from the "172R (s/n 17280001 and up) 1996 & ON maintenance manual". Your modelled 172R (N7274H) s/n 17280642 uses the same AMM, so this should be the correct value.
"3) Nosewheel Steering - The nosewheel steering operates through the use of the rudder pedals. The spring-loaded steering rod assemblies connect the nose gear steering arm assembly to the arms on the rudder pedals. The steering gives up to approximately 10 degrees each side of neutral, after which the brakes can be used to get a maximum deflection of 30 degrees right or left of the center."
Image

And as N6722c said, the maximum angle is 30° either side when towing the aircraft.

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jgraddon
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Re: Nosewheel range

Post by jgraddon »

Just a quick question:

How do apply just a little brakes in you don't have rudder pedals with toe brakes.

A lot of people have to use buttons or their keyboard.

When I assign the brakes to buttons the braking seems to be all or nothing. When trying to turn with toe brakes it just comes a complete standstill.

N6722c
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Re: Nosewheel range

Post by N6722c »

jgraddon wrote:Just a quick question:

How do apply just a little brakes in you don't have rudder pedals with toe brakes.

A lot of people have to use buttons or their keyboard.

When I assign the brakes to buttons the braking seems to be all or nothing. When trying to turn with toe brakes it just comes a complete standstill.
I am getting a little concerned about suggesting changes to config files -- If everyone changes their config files, to something different, then any reports given here will most likely be different, because of those changes, and nothing will get resolved.

Dislaimer -- Blah, Blah, Blah, own risk -- etc etc.
This is what I have chosen to do, as temp fix for Keyboard/joystick button breaking (on Hard runways)

aircraft.cfg file

Code: Select all

[brakes]
parking_brake = 2.00        //Parking brake available
toe_brakes_scale = 0.75  //Brake scalar
auto_brakes =0
hydraulic_system_scalar=0.00000
differential_braking_scale= 0.75 
[/size]
Geoff

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Scott - A2A
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Re: Nosewheel range

Post by Scott - A2A »

Yes, this is the thing. You can enter a specific number in the aircraft.cfg files and very often get a different result. We matched the sim to the videos using full rudder steering at various speeds. If anything, we leaned on the sim being more maneuverable but I it's very close. It took some special stuff to simulate this spring / brake system in the 172, feel so right in the sim.

Scott.
A2A Simulations Inc.

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