A word on controller setups.

[Killratio]

I have seen it said here and elsewhere that "you shouldn't have to adjust controllers for different aircraft".

Well actually, with respect, the closer the FM gets to "real" the more likely that you WILL have to adjust joystick cfg files.

In real aircraft the control responses and input vary wildly between types as to both scaling, effect and displacement.

If you use the same joystick to fly an FSX Cessna, F-16 and Tigermoth then you SHOULD get completely unrealistic response from two out of three of the aircraft if one of them responds properly. If you do not, then the FM's are not accurate. It is as simple as that.

An F-16 joystick moves about 1/4 of an inch, a 172 yoke an inch or two and a Tiger joystick about 15 inches. A 172 has roughly equal effect per unit of movement at MOST speeds, a Tiger is decidedly "sloppy" until larger moves are made and in an F-16 the computer decides what you meant by your input and how best to achieve it.

Also, "equal effect" does not necessarily mean that the requested input will give the desired response...it could push the aircraft beyond limits of AoA, G etc etc.

The one control set up CAN not and WILL not accurately reflect the manual joystick inputs of all of these aircraft simultaneously.

If you want ultimate realism then you simply must acknowledge that individual types handle differently through the range of speeds, attitudes and control displacements. A joystick or yoke set up for "one size fits all" will not represent this realistically. It is not a simple case of "at 20% movement you should get 'x' response" In the real aircraft, if a 1/4 inch movement gets a certain response then on your yoke that may only require 1/8 inch...this will make the aircraft FEEL unstable and twitchy...but does not make the FM "wrong".

You either need to "scale" your physical inputs or scale the joystick response to make the experience match the aircraft's real characteristics. If the FM responds perfectly to REAL size movements on a yoke/joystick set up with REAL size travel then it is accurate.

Anything else is the equivalent of playing a driving game with a controller that requires 25 turns of the wheel for full left or right lock. If your controller requires that, it is the controller, not the model, which needs attention.

respectfully,

Darryl

[Tigerclaw]

At last, someone with an excellent explanation as to what is really going on. If you're still doubtful, try flying a helicopter with a YOKE! And bare in mind that not ALL hardware of the same make and type will react in exactly the same way. That's why I've been using FSUIPC for years, I set up separate profiles for ALL my craft, be it plane, helicopter or glider. A LancAir Legacy will fly and feel totally different with a yoke compared to a stick. It flies more realistic with the stick. But if you take that yoke and make it more sensitive in the center, it will feel more like a stick. The same goes for a craft that is normally flown with a yoke, you'll need to flatten the centre so more travel is needed to emulate the feel of the yoke.
They are called curves, and I learned all about them while flying RC Helicopters. FSUIPC is a perfect module for setting up hardware how YOU think it should be, and how YOU think it should feel. I'm not promoting a product here, and if the same result can be achieved in another way, go for it.

I have both a yoke and an X52. At the moment I'm using the X52 to fly the C172, because I also love to fly helicopters. I KNOW the C172 will feel much better if I were using the yoke, but I haven't managed to have both plugged in at the same time without causing conflicts with my helicopters. So for now, I'll use the curves in FSUIPC to get the stick as close as I can. I TRUST A2A to have the flight model right, they are the pros'

Thanks for posting this, I hope everyone begins to realise that it isn't always the flight model at fault.

[Alan_A]

What Killratio said. Over the years, I've worked with dozens of controllers. They're all significantly different from each other, both in sensitivity and even more critically (as he suggests), range of travel. I've just tried out elevator sensitivity in the 172 using the tweaked settings that have been suggested by others, and in the end concluded that A2A's original works best. But the operative point is that I'm using a PFC yoke, which is quite sensitive (using Hall Effect sensors) but also has a range of travel that almost exactly duplicates the range of motion of the Cessna yoke. My results using the original tuning looked exactly like what you see in Scott's video. But if I'd been using a short-throw stick, the aircraft would have been very difficult to control - the PFC yoke requires a light touch.

The lesson I'm applying here is one I learned in FSX helos, first using the Thrustmaster Warthog joystick, which is precise but short-throw, then moving to a professional-grade set of helicopter controls, where the full-size cyclic allows much smaller control inputs. Something similar is in play here. And the answer, for most people, is not to spend a fortune on professional controls, but, as has been suggested, to be aggressive about tuning your physical controls. The FSUIPC slopes are wonderful for this - I calibrate all my controllers in FSUIPC under the setting "send to FSUIPC direct calibration," bypassing FSX entirely, and using the slopes as much as needed. What's nice about the slope settings is that you can tune them on the fly without exiting FSX or reloading aircraft. But if you don't want to go to this extent, even the sensitivity and null zone settings in FSX will help.

Hope this is useful.

EDIT: @Tigerclaw - if you're using FSUIPC, you can set up different profiles for different aircraft or types of aircraft, and assign different controls for each. My joysticks, yokes and helo controls are plugged in all the time. Disable the controllers in FSX and run everything through FSUIPC. Search the FSUIPC manual for "profiles" and you'll find a walk-through.

[Tigerclaw]

Thanks Alan, I did try this with ONE controller at a time, but ran into difficulties due to space for both sets. I will look into it when I don't have to keep moving the controllers. I live in a shoebox right now, and simply don't have enough room

[jimmyrfr]

Some very excellent and well explained advice given above.

I'd also second that the FSUIPC calibration abilities are most definitely worth using. I indeed found the 172 to be a bit sensitive for me, but I tend to be a bit heavy handed on the yoke as well, which isn't helped by the slight detents and stickiness on the Saitek yoke I use. The first place I go however, is into FSUIPC. Set the calibration to include a touch of positive slope, and presto, problem solved.

The display of the movement of the yoke on screen can't match mine anyways, since the real deal turns 90 degrees in either direction, and mine only turns 45 degrees, so having a bit less sensitivity on the small movements works great for me.

[Lewis - A2A]

Great post and very well put. Worth the bump me thinks!

It's also worth noting that the tweak some are using to dampen the elevator response will completely void the stall behaviour of the aircraft. Please be careful when editing the files we use Accu-sim as an external source of
Calculations so standard FSX tweaks do not apply at all to any Accu-sim aircraft the values within the various cfg's are specially set for external usage.


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[smokeyupahead]

I had my elevator sloped -4 from flying the ngx, now the elevator seams to be better once I reset it...


David

[jimmyrfr]

I had my elevator sloped -4 from flying the ngx, now the elevator seams to be better once I reset it...

Yep, I found a slope of +5 to feel about perfect for my yoke.

[Krycekuk]

I'm not a power user of FSX but I have used it since it was released. My appetite for addon aircraft has been such that I quickly realized the one size fits all approach of joystick and button configuration within FSX just isn't good enough.

I soon discovered FSUIPC and the registered version (payware) allows multiple joystick axis (and calibration) and button set-ups per aircraft or even per variant should you need that. It allows macro files and complex home build cockpits to be used with FSX with relative ease.

So now with that under the hood I can fly anything from a helicopter, to a four engine passenger jet, to a light single engine trainer. As I pick the aircraft in FSX I want to fly, in the background FSUIPC is handling the correct profile management automatically. Its one of the best investments you can ever make to FSX.

If you are just coming into the scene of complex aircraft then please don't expect them to work with your standard FSX configuration without tinkering. Where possible many companies use external tools to help with FSX limitations but at the end of the day a developer cannot be expected to be able to cater for the 1000's of unique FSX installs along with the 1000's of combinations of hardware people use.

I strongly urge people to check over FSUIPC to see its capabilities and if you are in the market for more complex addon aircraft for your hanger. I have recently added a heavy commercial jet to my collection and had spoilers, engines, flaps, gear all configured within a few minutes, completely separate but re-using some axis from my light trainer aircraft I was just flying.

If you are using the saitek panels (not the display FIPs) then I also strongly urge you to ditch the saitek drivers (only programmed for stock FSX aircraft and hit and miss that they work with anything more complex) and go with a donationware program called SPAD. This vastly improves on the panels and again opens them up with profile controls allowing you to do so much more with your investment.

Another program that can help with programing joystick buttons if you dont want to dive into FSUIPC too much is LINDA. With released profile support you can have custom functions mapped to a joystick button very simply and again those buttons can be doing different things in different aircraft. LINDA is donationware.

Lastly always check to see if a tool has been released along with your aircraft purchase, A2A have been making configuration tools to allow axis to be mapped to more unusual functions and buttons to be mapped to aircraft controls.

All these thing do play well with each other and with controls mapped in FSX AS LONG AS YOU DON'T double allocate a button or axis in more then one place. I personally still use FSX for a few joystick buttons and keyboard controls, FSUIPC for all my axis assignments and custom joystick functions and SPAD for my saitek panels. This configuration works fine for me.

I would like to add I am not in anyway affiliated with any of the tools mentioned but they seriously enhance your flying enjoyment with complex aircraft and help to get the most out of what can be expensive controllers for this particular hobby.