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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:08 pm 
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NOTE: this is an issue only if you have hardware rudder pedals with toe brakes and calibrate them using FSX.

When testing the brakes/ground friction problems, we've realized that there is a serious issue in FSX in how the Sensitivity and Deadzone settings work on toe brakes. These settings can be reached in FSX through Options->Settings->Controls, on the Calibration Tab.

Basically every setting other than:
- Sensitivity: Full
- Deadzone: None (or very close to none)
will cause the brakes to not return to zero when released. They will remain on at about 1-15%,depending on the setting. For example with default setting of Sensitivity 75% and Deadzone 25%, your brakes operate in 10%-50% range, meaning that when fully pressed, you get only 50% brake power, and with brakes released you still have 10% brake power applied. But if you toggle the parking brake on&off, the brakes will temporarily return to 0, until you use them again.

This affects all airplanes, including default ones!
It is amplified in our C172, because of the way we preprocess brakes input and because our airplane has been configured with stronger brakes than typical FSX aircraft of its class. If you have been using hardware rudder, better check those calibration settings, it may turn out that you have been flying with brakes engaged all the time ;)


EDIT: Because some people read this post as like we are blaming FSX for some issues with C172. This is NOT the ultimate fix for all the ground friction problems. But it helps for at least some of people who reported the issue, and it's a good thing to check nonetheless, as this setting affects negatively all airplanes.

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Last edited by some1 - A2A on Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:30 pm 
I have max sensitivity and no null zones on my toe brakes (Saitek Pedals) and still have the bad 'sticking' in this aircraft, yet do not see it in any other aircraft.

Thanks.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:06 pm 
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Same thing here.

Do you notice this also? The left toe brake has no range in the animation, it's either full on or off when manually braking. The right isn't as bad but leaps into about mid way (50%) braking when initially pressed. I can video all of this if you would like, let me know.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:55 pm 
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some1 - A2A wrote:
It is amplified in our C172, because of the way we preprocess brakes input and because our airplane has been configured with stronger brakes than typical FSX aircraft of its class.


Any advice for those of us who don't have rudder pedals or other means of analog braking? All I have at my disposal is digital On/Off braking per press of a button. While other aircraft work fine by just tapping that brake button the A2A C172 pretty much comes to a immediate standstill even with the shortest of button presses, which makes performing tight turns with differential braking next to impossible.

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Last edited by Jigsaw on Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:58 pm 
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Setting the sensitivity and null zones as per your screen shot only worked for me once I went through the recalibration of my rudder pedals. Perhaps others having this problem could see if that helps? For what its worth, I am using Saitek Pro Flight pedals.

some1 - A2A wrote:
What are your calibration settings in FSX? Mine look like that and no issues here (FSX is localized, but you see the sliders):

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:36 am 
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The calibration tip of 100% sensitivity and 0% null worked perfectly for me to clear up the rollout/taxiing issues that I was seeing on runways and taxiways. With no brakes applied, the plane will start creeping forward at a very low idle, and retains the ability to do so. I would assume this part is now working properly for me.

However, I do find that trying to taxi on grass (completely off-apron, off taxiway, off runway) is still a bit too 'sticky' to me. I'm no expert however, and maybe that's intended - I'm not sure what RPM it should realistically take to begin / keep moving?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:11 am 
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I unplugged my Saitek pedals altogether and I still need about 1600 rpm to start rolling very slowly. The sensitivity bug with rudder pedals is not a new issue. I knew about that a long time ago and my settings are good. When my settings were wrong and the brakes would not release completely, the brake message was on screen, which is not the case anymore.
All this doesn't make much sense to me. Plus, if it was a FSX related bug, why doesn't it happen with my A2A Spitfire, A2A Piper Cub, and A2A Civilian Mustang?
Why is it such a big deal to acknowledge the possibility of a bug with the Cessna? Everyone here is a fan and understands very well how difficult if is to develop such a complex simulation. But at this point, in my opinion, it becomes a little bit ridiculous to blame FSX as the culprit. It is quite obvious that something is wrong with the Cessna. I don't mean this as an offense. Like I said I'm a fan.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:46 am 
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Stephan wrote:
All this doesn't make much sense to me. Plus, if it was a FSX related bug, why doesn't it happen with my A2A Spitfire, A2A Piper Cub, and A2A Civilian Mustang?
Why is it such a big deal to acknowledge the possibility of a bug with the Cessna? Everyone here is a fan and understands very well how difficult if is to develop such a complex simulation. But at this point, in my opinion, it becomes a little bit ridiculous to blame FSX as the culprit. It is quite obvious that something is wrong with the Cessna. I don't mean this as an offense. Like I said I'm a fan.


Hello Stephen,

We do acknowledge the problem and the above helps out as our investigations have discovered this inherent flaw in FSX that will make matters worse and also help a lot of users overcome some of the issue as the brakes being applied 100% of the time certainly doesn't help matters.

thanks,
Lewis

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:37 am 
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Lewis - A2A wrote:
Stephan wrote:
We do acknowledge the problem and the above helps out as our investigations have discovered this inherent flaw in FSX that will make matters worse and also help a lot of users overcome some of the issue as the brakes being applied 100% of the time certainly doesn't help matters.

thanks,
Lewis


Absolutely. Don't make me wrong, I don't mean to criticize this post. This issue with FSX is absolutely real and it's good to help users fix it. I just don't see this as the cause of the Cessna issue and I feel like maybe there's just a little too much emphasize put on it instead of looking into the real reason behind this. I'm not saying it's necessarily your fault, it may be something else entirely. It just looks like a strong probability that we're missing the point. I'll try other tests and report here if that can help. It certainly won't prevent me from enjoying this fantastic aircraft!

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:47 am 
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As you can read from the responses above, it fixes the issue at least for several people. Don't worry, even at the time of starting this topic we were aware that it is not a fix for everyone and we are still investigating the issue.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:57 am 
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Stephan wrote:
When my settings were wrong and the brakes would not release completely, the brake message was on screen, which is not the case anymore


(Please note that I'm only offering my observation on what was affecting my system; this is not a comment on the validity of there possibly being more to the issue.) In my case, where it seems the brakes weren't releasing completely once the toe brakes on my rudder pedals were used, I was not seeing a brake message at the screen to alert me to that fact. The message appears when I was indeed pressing the toe brakes (or using the keyboard shortcut), but was not appearing when the brakes were 'stuck' partially on.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:24 pm 
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Q_Flyer wrote:
I have max sensitivity and no null zones on my toe brakes (Saitek Pedals) and still have the bad 'sticking' in this aircraft, yet do not see it in any other aircraft.

Thanks.

Same here...



David

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:15 pm 
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After performing a full calibration on the saitek rudder pedals and setting zero null zone and full sensitivity, the animation issue in the VC has cleared up. I still get friction differences depending on whether I have used the toe brakes since last applying the parking brake, but it is not as marked as some are reporting.

EDIT: I just reverted the FSUIPC entry (from the FSUIPC issues sticky thread)

2. Toe brakes release when pushed to maximum position
If you have rudder pedals with toe brakes, go to the fsuipc.ini, find "BrakeReleaseThreshold = 75" and set it to 0.

back to 75. With correctly calibrated Saitek pedals, I just found I had no sticking brake issues at all on paved surfaces. I was just above idle at 1000rpm, rolling slowly... deliberate application of differential brakes, I stopped, then releasing the foot brakes, the plane then started rolling again, without any additional power application... I suppose I need to try this out at an OrbX field... :)

Just a report on my experience, perhaps it might help someone to appreciate how good the aircraft is.

EDIT 2: I don't really seem to be having any real sticky problems at OrbX airports... at least Diamond Point 2WA1 was fine, both on the tarmac AND the grass taxiways...

A

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:45 pm 
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put some coil springs under the toe brakes??? Its OK Scott!!! I'm happy with her anyways!!!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:25 am 
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Without proper calibration, why does the Brakes or Differential Brakes message disappear when you release the brakes, even if they're still on?

I found I had a *slight* sticky brakes issue. The calibration fix made a small difference, however it's still a bit sticky at many OrbX airports as you can see in my thread with videos posted.


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