Question about landing technique

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Radu T
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Question about landing technique

Post by Radu T »

After flying the 172 for a couple weeks I believe I have good performance in all aspects of the flight except landings. I approach the airfield at 62-60 knots, then pull the power to idle once I am over the numbers. When the aircraft is close to the ground I pull back on my joystick until the aircraft stops descending (by now speed is 55-50 knots) and let it glide. Once I see that it starts to fall (airspeed is now 50-45 knots), I pull back on my joystick only to discover that I have pulled it back the most I physically can and the nose does not rise and the aircraft falls down on the runway and the landing is a 3-point landing rather than touching down on the main wheels then the nose wheel. Is this a trim issue? As following my most recent flight when this happened I saw the trim was above the "Take-Off" position (I had trimmed the aircraft to take off trim when I took off). Or is this simply an airspeed issue? Meaning am I waiting too long to pull back further on the stick? The stall horn never sounds when the aircraft falls down on the runway. Any help would be appreciated.

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Oracle427
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Re: Question about landing technique

Post by Oracle427 »

Have you installed the updates?
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wblackret
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Re: Question about landing technique

Post by wblackret »

What about your controller sensitivitiy settings for your yoke or flight stick?
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Radu T
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Re: Question about landing technique

Post by Radu T »

Regarding the update, I purchased the 172 after the website was re-modeled and after installing it, I did run the updater from the forums but it gave me more problems so I re-installed the 172 in order to get rid of them.

Regarding sensitivity I checked and my sensitivity is at 0% for elevator. Could this be the issue? I move my joystick full back with 0% sensitivity and the elevators do come up as well to the full up position.

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Oracle427
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Re: Question about landing technique

Post by Oracle427 »

good catch, the sensitivities should all be at 100% for max realism.

What problems did the updater cause? There are a number of major enhancements to the 172 that were included in the updates.
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Radu T
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Re: Question about landing technique

Post by Radu T »

I am surprised that the sensitivity should be 100%, they were initially at 60% and I found it hard to even maintain level flight i.e minuscule changes in the joystick made the nose go up or down at least 3 degrees.

The problem following the update was that the plane always wobbled while taxiing and wobbled heavily during turns (to the point I had to stop the turn because I thought the tires would pop). I was taxiing normally not erratically and had a fairly light load.

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Oracle427
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Re: Question about landing technique

Post by Oracle427 »

A real 172 is flown by applying pressure to the toe and not by moving the yoke. If you think in terms of moving the yoke, you will be changing large changes in pitch. It is a plane you fly with 2 fingers and your thumb, like holding a teacup. I once took a friend flying, while in cruise and ask trimmed out I gave him the controls after advising him to use a very light touch. He grasped the yoke with both hands and the airplane immediately began a 500FPM climb. I told him to relax his grip because the plane was climbing as he insisted he has not done a thing. As soon as he opened his hands, the pitch decreased. It can be quite a surprise for the first timer.

Not sure about the taxiing issue. The plane does wobble a little bit. A realistic taxi speed should be something like a fast walk or jogging pace. Going too quickly will cause it to wobble a bit.

I had the opportunity to learn that attempting a turn at slightly too fast a speed will cause the plane to skid sideways and wobble quite a lot. A little frightening as I was in a rush to clear off a runway that I had landed on with opposite direction landing traffic on short final. Thankfully no damage to the plane, maybe a little to my heart.

As pwr A2A recommendations, the control sensitivities should be 100%. With practice you will fly much smoother at these higher settings.
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Oracle427
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Re: Question about landing technique

Post by Oracle427 »

Just read through the previous thread and saw that the wobble issue self resolved.
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Radu T
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Re: Question about landing technique

Post by Radu T »

Ok then thx I will try it and see. I use a joystick and was making very subtle changes and did not have pistol grip on the stick. Will try it again tomorrow morning.

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wblackret
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Re: Question about landing technique

Post by wblackret »

I agree with Oracle427. As I progressed through my flight training the key was a light touch. Regarding taxi speed, I was always told a fast or quick walk. For me the sensitivity settings being set at 100% reproduce the closest feeling of realism (simulation vs RL handling).
Bill Black

C172,C182,250 Comanche,J3 Cub,P-40,Bonanza
MSFS, P3Dv4.5
JETLINE GT2
W10,Z390 PRO MB,9TH GEN I7 9700K 4.9 GHZ (OC),KRAKEN M22 120 MHZ CPU LC,32 GB CORSAIR VENGEANCE 3200 GHZ RAM, EVGA 8 GB RTX 2070 SUPER,850 WATT CORSAIR PS,2TB CORSAIR SSD.

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wblackret
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Re: Question about landing technique

Post by wblackret »

As I read your original thread again, something else occurred to me. Another issue I experienced was in fact trim, during my training. As a result, it made me want to use more yoke force while controlling take off, level flight and landing. Once again, for me, as I was approaching the pattern and decreasing air speed I would reset the trim accordingly, slightly short of being back at the T/O mark on the trim wheel, or which ever setting permitted a light touch control of the aircraft. So you are not fighting a nose heavy aircraft. As you begin dropping your flaps, trim accordingly to counter act the nose of the aircraft rising. As I recall, each instructor would stress that for landing it was pitch for airspeed, power for altitude. With practice, it became a more fluid control of the aircraft and landings became much better.
Bill Black

C172,C182,250 Comanche,J3 Cub,P-40,Bonanza
MSFS, P3Dv4.5
JETLINE GT2
W10,Z390 PRO MB,9TH GEN I7 9700K 4.9 GHZ (OC),KRAKEN M22 120 MHZ CPU LC,32 GB CORSAIR VENGEANCE 3200 GHZ RAM, EVGA 8 GB RTX 2070 SUPER,850 WATT CORSAIR PS,2TB CORSAIR SSD.

Radu T
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Re: Question about landing technique

Post by Radu T »

Changing the sensitivity to 100% did seem to help considerably, I've done several landings and it is much easier to pull the nose up more although I still seem to balloon and the fall on the runway, the nose gear now is barely above the runway so technically I did a correct main wheels first landing. Maybe I am too scared to pull the nose up high enough because then it would climb back up (I thought the nose gear was well above the runway but the replay showed it was not the case), who would have thought that landing a 172 would be this much work ;) really happy I've found something that challenges me. I think now I should just practice and not expect to grease a landing after barely 20 hours in this plane. Thanks again for the help.

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Paughco
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Re: Question about landing technique

Post by Paughco »

I learned how to land a Cessna 150 at Half Moon Bay Airport many years ago. Most landings were with no flaps. I'm hoping that the 172 is close enough to the 150 that maybe this method will work for the 172:

We'd be on the right downwind leg for Rwy 30, at about 750 feet, in cruise attitude. When even with the numbers (or another aircraft on final), I was instructed to pull carb heat, reduce throttle to idle, and trim for 75 mph glide. Roll onto base when the numbers were 45 degrees behind the wing, then onto final, keep the airplane at 75 mph all the way down. Ease the yoke back at the appropriate height above the runway to slow descent and bleed off airspeed, hopefully flaring just above runway, with main gear contacting right at the stall. Hopefully. Practice many times.

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Oracle427
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Re: Question about landing technique

Post by Oracle427 »

I have recently (re)started my Instrument Rating. I was going through my logbook and saw that have over 1000 landings and 400 hours. Probably about half of them in 172s.

Every landing is different. Every single one, every single time. You have to fly each one to the very end and do what it takes. Always learning and self debriefing after every approach and landing. The moment you think you have it squared away is the moment Mother Nature and Murphy will get together and serve you a serious portion of humble pie.

Proficiency is also a big deal. You have to Kerri practicing regularly to maintain the basic skills.

If you get the chance, go to any airport with training ops and watch the 172s. You'll see loads of ballooning and flat landings. It isn't easy and varying conditions demand different techniques and results.
Flight Simmer since 1983. PP ASEL IR Tailwheel
N28021 1979 Super Viking 17-30A

Radu T
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Joined: 14 Jun 2018, 13:39

Re: Question about landing technique

Post by Radu T »

Something else that greatly helps is while floating reducing power to 1000/900 rpm rather than 600 rpm idle while pulling back on the stick more and more. Helps to keep the nose in the air while mains touch down.

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