How high can the Cessna fly?

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Still Learning
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How high can the Cessna fly?

Post by Still Learning »

Forgive me if this has been posted by me already; but I couldn't find it in "my posts"...

I want to fly from KGEG to KMSO but the MSA's are really high, if you check them out on Skyvector. Is this a flight that a 172 would make because of the MSA's? What airplane would you fly for this flight?

Thanks...

Still Learning
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AKar
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Re: How high can the Cessna fly?

Post by AKar »

I think that should be doable with direct routing.

I suggest, however, that you follow the Interstate 90 east from Coeur d'Alene Lake. This keeps you reasonably low for entire trip, well under the highest peaks. That's what I did when I flew that specific pair of airports with A2A 172. It won't event add too many miles in comparison to direct.

-Esa

Still Learning
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Re: How high can the Cessna fly?

Post by Still Learning »

Thanks, I'll do that.

And from there do you think I could take V187 to Great Falls? Or how would you do it? MSO just breaks up the flight, so it isn't incredibly long.


Thanks in advance,

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AKar
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Re: How high can the Cessna fly?

Post by AKar »

Still Learning wrote:And from there do you think I could take V187 to Great Falls? Or how would you do it? MSO just breaks up the flight, so it isn't incredibly long.
I'd just continue IFR, or I Follow Roads! :mrgreen: Just keep on following the road somewhat like so. :)

If you get bored, just take a stop at Helena, easily guided in by Hauser NDB on 386 kHz. :)

Following the passes among the mountains is the most fun kind of trip flying I can think of in the sim! It is visual firstly, but you'd also want to have the available beacons listed and available!

-Esa

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AKar
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Re: How high can the Cessna fly?

Post by AKar »

This you mention actually makes up a pretty fun VFR flight, especially when the clouds duck you to the deck! I like this very area in the simulator, with Orbx regions especially! And it suits anything from the Airbus to a 172, challenging them in different but equally entertaining ways.

-Esa

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mallcott
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Re: How high can the Cessna fly?

Post by mallcott »

Still Learning wrote:Forgive me if this has been posted by me already; but I couldn't find it in "my posts"...

I want to fly from KGEG to KMSO but the MSA's are really high, if you check them out on Skyvector. Is this a flight that a 172 would make because of the MSA's? What airplane would you fly for this flight?

Thanks...

Still Learning
As others have suggested, fly a route that works, not a direct flight that takes you over dangerously high sticky-up bits.
This is the essence of mountain flying - getting the route right. `Round and Through`, not `up and over`...

But to answer the question: Service ceiling for the 172 is about 13,500 feet.
Service ceiling for `our` 172 will be around 12,000 because of the risk of hypoxia.

But it's a 172, so don't expect to arrive there anytime soon. plan for about 550 ft/min for slant range purposes.

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Welsch
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Re: How high can the Cessna fly?

Post by Welsch »

In your example, I would most likely just follow along Highway 90 from Spokane to Missoula. Mullan pass at ~5200ft looks to be the highest point along that route. Weather (cloud ceiling!) permitting, that should be perfectly fine for the 172. There are even a couple of alternate airfields along that way, plus a nice VOR-DME and a weather station right at the pass.

Still Learning
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Re: How high can the Cessna fly?

Post by Still Learning »

I think in the "mountainous West" as I've heard it called before...I think that's where pilots of the 172 would face real difficulties, or so I would presume. I would think, once you get past Denver, altitude wouldn't be a problem.

I did fly the route we've been discussing, at an altitude of 8400, according to my altimeter. My flight planner (VFR Flight - it's Freeware) had me at more than that by a couple of hundred feet. I "cheated" on this flight, using the autopilot...I feel so dirty. :) At least I didn't use the GPS. I would hasten to add: if anyone wants to use the autopilot, feel free. For me personally - while I am still "earning my wings" :) I don't see the point. And it makes the simulator - for me - a lot more interesting without it. But I did learn how much trim to use. I doubt that the amount of trim in use at any particular time, is a constant. But it was interesting. Hopefully I didn't step on anyone's toes.

If you want to look it up on Skyvector (and see the MSA's) here (for better or worse) is the route I wound up taking:

KGEG ROPES HILLIE MLP S34 INE (NDB just outside the iILS) KMSO

Vfr Flight includes a moving map so I knew when I arrived at the waypoints, that would normally be entered into the GPS. ETE: 1:22 (with wind) ATE: 1:39 (also with wind)

Now looking back on it, I could have flown a better route. Like: KGEG KPDW (waypoint) INE (NDB) KMSO, all of which would have taken me by Vfr Flight's estimates 1:30. The only reason I didn't take that route was, I didn't see how going south got me any closer to my destination, and I couldn't ascertain with certainty where HWY 90 was on the chart, now I found it. As I like to say, "Shouda, woulda, coulda, didn't."

Still Learning
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DC3
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Re: How high can the Cessna fly?

Post by DC3 »

I have a few comments:
(1) Great flight, great terrain, great challenge.
(2) In the U.S., When you are flying VFR (visual flight rules) in and eastern direction (0-179 degrees) you are supposed to fly at odd thousands plus 500 feet.
(3) As you described you flew at 8400 feet, your altitude under FAA rules should have been 7500 or 9500 feet.
(4) Flying west you would choose even altitudes plus 500 feet.
(5) For IFR flying you are at whatever altitude ATC puts you at, but generally for eastbound flights it is odd altitudes and for westbound flights it is at even altitudes in thousands of feet.

This is not a criticism, it is meant only to be informative. When you initially described your flight I went to skyvector.com and thought about how I would fly it in the Cessna (or Piper) and when I would have time to fly it. I will fly it when I get some time because it looks very interesting. I will follow some rivers and some roads. A quick cursive look shows that I will probably have to fly about 7500ft to make it through the area. It will be fun to see if this can be done.

Thanks for the route, I am sure I will love it. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

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DC3
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Re: How high can the Cessna fly?

Post by DC3 »

As a point of information, For flying the Victor Airways the minimum enroute altitudes, in addition to providing obstacle clearance, are used to ensure good navigation beacon reception. They also provide for future climbs in the terrain. So in some cases the land below the airway may be considerably lower than the MEA.

This reference by Jeppesen gives some good examples that are in the area of flight being discussed.

http://ww1.jeppesen.com/download/aopa/sep-aopa.pdf

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Re: How high can the Cessna fly?

Post by ResidentEVO »

DC3 wrote:I have a few comments:
(1) Great flight, great terrain, great challenge.
(2) In the U.S., When you are flying VFR (visual flight rules) in and eastern direction (0-179 degrees) you are supposed to fly at odd thousands plus 500 feet.
(3) As you described you flew at 8400 feet, your altitude under FAA rules should have been 7500 or 9500 feet.
(4) Flying west you would choose even altitudes plus 500 feet.
(5) For IFR flying you are at whatever altitude ATC puts you at, but generally for eastbound flights it is odd altitudes and for westbound flights it is at even altitudes in thousands of feet.

This is not a criticism, it is meant only to be informative. When you initially described your flight I went to skyvector.com and thought about how I would fly it in the Cessna (or Piper) and when I would have time to fly it. I will fly it when I get some time because it looks very interesting. I will follow some rivers and some roads. A quick cursive look shows that I will probably have to fly about 7500ft to make it through the area. It will be fun to see if this can be done.

Thanks for the route, I am sure I will love it. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
Altitude blocks like that are only a thing if you're 3000 agl.

The whole point of flying, IMO, is that you don't need to follow roads. Go direct, in this case. It isn't that high. The MSA is 9800 feet. So you can clear that easily. If you go direct, you save 20 minutes.

Weather would obviously impact your route, and/or decisions here.

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DC3
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Re: How high can the Cessna fly?

Post by DC3 »

Yes, over 3000 agl for direction based altitudes. I didn't know if at 8400 ft the op was above the 3000 level or not, so I threw it out there for general reference.

Still Learning
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Re: How high can the Cessna fly?

Post by Still Learning »

DC3 Thanks for the information. I chose 8400 based off of the MSA's. It's embarrassing to say that I totally forgot about all the other information. I think the altitudes had something to do with it.

Since the thread has taken a "left turn," so to speak, from the original topic, allow me to continue in that vein. Why are the MSA's higher in the Low Alt. Charts than the VFR charts?

And would (for example) do airways have recommended altitudes? The Flight Planner in FSX:SE said that V247, when I hovered my mouse over it, had a recommended altitude of 13,500. Perhaps they got that number from a couple of sectors and got an average from the Low Enroute Chart.

Thanks in advance,

Still Learning
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