Very sensitive Elevator

[funkfutwenty2]

Hi, I use a Saitek Cessna Yoke and when flying the c172 and c182 even the smallest input from the elevator gives very sharp movements, it makes it really hard to flare correctly without ballooning.

I use FSUIPC for axis assignment and calibration. Is there anything else I should be doing to get this correctly set?

[Oracle427]

Everyone has trouble with the C172 when learning to fly in this phase of flight. It takes patience, and good hand eye coordination to get it down.

I recommend maxing out sensititvity and setting null zones to zero. No curves, no magic, just practice. Don't just pull back by a set amount. Gradually reduce the rate of descent as you near the runway at about a wingspan above the runway until you completely arrest descent with the wheel just a foot above the runway. Pay very close attention to the perspective of the runway and how it changes as you get very near the surface.

Do not look right over the nose. Focus on the far end of the runway as you start the level off and hold the airplane off the runway. If you look right over the nose, that's where you're going to fly the airplane to.

Then just do whatever it takes to keep the airplane flying until it runs out of lift and settles onto the runway. If you do it perfectly, the stick will be all the way back as you touchdown.

The elevator remains very effective on the C172 right up into the stall. It will easily lift the nose up, increase the AoA and cause a balloon. Try to think it terms of applying pressure to the yoke instead of thinking in terms of moving it. This is why more sensitivity and less null zone is important because it enables you to make the fine movements that are required in this phase of flight.

[funkfutwenty2]

Thanks for your reply. Honestly if I pulled the stick right back it would flip, it's that sensitive! I feel that there's a setting I'm missing. Aileron control is perfect but the elevator is a good 4-5 times at least more sensitive.

In FSUIPC when calibrating the range is around -16300 to 16200 (this varies slightly) - sound about right? I've flown a c172 briefly and jumped out of one hundreds of times and the yoke elevators aren't this sensitive.

[Piper_EEWL]

As Oracle says the A2A C172 and C182 give everyone a hard time in the beginning. Another community member just posted about the same issue here. The thread has some very usefull links to some older threads about this "issue" posted by Nick M.

[Oracle427]

That just it. It won't "flip" if you take it gradually and allow the airspeed to run out as you keep trying to keep it flying just above the runway.

One of the basic lessons every pilot learns is slow flight.

The pilot is asked to slow down and configure the airplane with full flaps as if for a landing. Then they slow the aircraft all the way down until the stall horn begins to sound without giving up altitude and then they add power to keep it there with the nose up, power and just hanging on. At this point you can practice controlling the airplane at minimum airspeed with the stall horn going off without gaining or losing altitude. It is not all that different from where you will be at the point of touchdown.

The you can try pulling out the throttle all the way and then hold altitude by gradually pulling back on the yoke until the stall occurs. You should find that you can pull the yoke gradually all the way back without pitching the nose up right up to the stall break. This technique is more or less what you will do lower down when you are landing. Just don't approach it mechanically. Don't pull back by a set amount. Pull back only when needed and by whatever amount is needed at that time. You don't need FSUIPC for this and I don't have it.

I still balloon from time to time in the 172. It takes regular practice to remain proficient and safe.

[Nick - A2A]

Yeah, I agree that lots of practice and just giving yourself time to adjust to the 'feel' of the elevator in the A2A 172 is probably key here. In your case, you mention the Saitek yoke and by most accounts that could be adding to your difficulty too. I've no experience personally of Saitek or CH yokes (I just use a pretty basic joystick), but this recent reply in another thread by BPL may be of interest as it includes some comments on the Saitek yoke pitch feel. I believe some users of the Saitek yokes even modify their hardware to remove the centre 'detent'.

Though I use FSUIPC for my elevator axis, I don't add a curve or any null zone and your max and min values sound about right (theoretically they should be ±16384). You could try using the 'filter' option in FSUIPC though if you don't already; this could help to remove any noise from dirty pots.

In the world of FSX, I guess it's more difficult to get use to the control feel of a specific type if one uses quite a range of different aircraft with varying performance, especially if they're from different developers with different ideas on how control responses should be set up.

Cheers,
Nick

[funkfutwenty2]

Thanks for the replies guys, guess I'll keep practicing. Guess I'm just thrown off at how much more sensitive it is to real life! I mean not even 1cm of physical movement of the yoke has me ballooning!

As a side note, should I be using FSUIPC to calibrate or something else?

[Nick - A2A]

Guess I'm just thrown off at how much more sensitive it is to real life! I mean not even 1cm of physical movement of the yoke has me ballooning!

I guess part of the reason for this is that flight sim yokes tend to have a much shorter 'throw' than their counterparts in real aeroplanes. So (to pick a number from thin air) 3cm of fore-and-aft movement of the real Cessna yoke may translate to just 1cm or so with its flight sim counterpart.

As far as calibration goes, I think you'll want to use the Windows controllers dialog (or any Saitek software you have installed) for this. Then it's up to you whether you use FSUIPC or just the host sim to set up the axes. (If you use FSUIPC, make sure you remove the corresponding axis assignments in the FSX/P3D control settings.) You could always experiment with a slight +ve curve in FSUIPC, but it may prove to be counterproductive.

Cheers,
Nick

[Oracle427]

If I moved the real yoke 1CM back at the start of my level off I would be pitching up sharply and in a massive balloon. I've recorded this with a GoPro and the amount of movement initially required is barely perceptible.

[Lewis - A2A]

Yup its actually matching real life unlike all other sims. In reality we all fly with finger tips, no one yanks at the yokes like most simulations have you do. Oracle was skeptical like yourself until he did the same sort of tests we did in a 172R.

thanks,
Lewis

[Oracle427]

To be clear, I was skeptical of certain behaviors such as glide rates at idle at minimum airspeed, or climb rate with flaps fully extended along with a couple of other "boundaries". I was pleasantly surprised when I found the real aircraft matching the simulated version. I actually learned something about my aircraft that day.

The handling of the sim during landing is very good and I've always liked it.