Hardcore IFR freaks: Give me your best shot!

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paradoxbox
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Hardcore IFR freaks: Give me your best shot!

Post by paradoxbox »

I've been doing a lot of IFR practice recently in the various A2A planes. I tend to strip the GPS out of them since it makes things too easy, but I am able to use them without issue. Have to admit I am a fan of the old Bendix King KLN 87/94 etc. units and not the yucky blue Garmin units modeled in the sim.

Anyway, let's have your challenging IFR approaches and weather suggestions! Try to keep it to stuff where approach plates are available somewhere on the internet.

I'm betting people are going to throw up NDB approaches like that's the gauntlet, but I actually find them to be easier than VOR/DME stuff. The only time they're really a workout is in high winds at night with bad visibility..and mountains.


Well, here is my suggestion: Try flying KCEC Mcnamara Airport in California. The approach to rwy 12 (11 in the sim, due to the magnetic change over the past 10 years). The RWY 12 approach is a standard DME arc at 11NM, you're supposed to have dual DME in order to receive both the ILS and VOR DME at the same time.
http://flightaware.com/resources/airpor ... RWY+12/pdf

But if you want a real kick in the arse, try the BACKCOURSE approach. Oh man. There are dangerous TALLLL mountains EVERYWHERE around the airport. The MSA for everywhere but RWY12 is around 7000 or 8000 feet. Yikes. The area seems to be routinely covered in fog every night and morning in summer time.

It does have crossing runways so you can get some crosswind relief, but if the weather is too bad you'll have to take either rwy 12 or the back course!

Have fun and be sure to post up your suggestions!

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Great Ozzie
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Re: Hardcore IFR freaks: Give me your best shot!

Post by Great Ozzie »

paradoxbox wrote:Well, here is my suggestion: Try flying KCEC Mcnamara Airport in California. The approach to rwy 12 (11 in the sim, due to the magnetic change over the past 10 years). The RWY 12 approach is a standard DME arc at 11NM, you're supposed to have dual DME in order to receive both the ILS and VOR DME at the same time.
http://flightaware.com/resources/airpor ... RWY+12/pdf
Hi paradoxbox,

I don't believe dual DME is required for that approach. Just that simultaneous reception of I-CEC (the Localizer) and the CEC (VOR) DME is necessary. In fact, I don't think I-CEC has DME.
paradoxbox wrote:But if you want a real kick in the arse, try the BACKCOURSE approach. Oh man. There are dangerous TALLLL mountains EVERYWHERE around the airport. The MSA for everywhere but RWY12 is around 7000 or 8000 feet. Yikes. The area seems to be routinely covered in fog every night and morning in summer time.
Searching for approaches at KCEC, I don't see a back course approach that is available. :?

-Rob
Rob Osborne
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FAASTeam - Safer Skies Through Education
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paradoxbox
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Re: Hardcore IFR freaks: Give me your best shot!

Post by paradoxbox »

Thanks for the reply!

I should have been more clear about the simultaneous reception of the ILS / VORDME.

The fact that the VOR is offset from the ILS at that particular runway makes it interesting to intercept the ILS if you're doing an arc from the south side!

Yes, there is no official backcourse approach, but FSX simulates reception of the localizer on the backcourse, so you can do an impromptu ILS approach (Definitely not legal, but fun to do anyway)


Do you have any suggestions for difficult ILS approaches?

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Great Ozzie
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Re: Hardcore IFR freaks: Give me your best shot!

Post by Great Ozzie »

I like to fly the KMFR LOC/DME BC-B (Backcourse) from time to time. I'll depart KCEC, intercept V122 and fly that to WISEP - which is an IAF for that approach.

Of course, Aspen (KASE) comes to mind, the LOC/DME-E. I'm pretty sure on my other computer (down at the moment) I have a chart with the straight-in minima for Rwy 15. :?

Air Facts has a 7 instrument approaches you have to see to believe.

FAASTeam is doing an Unusual Approaches -- Part 2 this Tuesday the 30th. I did the first one about a year and a half ago and it was good. I am signed up for this one too. A lot of room left for sign-up. I think anyone can do these - but you may have to sign-up first (login) at the FAA Safety Team website (not sure about that - easy peasy tho).
Rob Osborne
Flight Instructor - CFI, CFII, MEI, MEII
A & P Mechanic


FAASTeam - Safer Skies Through Education
Professionalism in aviation is the pursuit of excellence through discipline, ethical behavior and continuous improvement. NBAA

GrahamP
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Re: Hardcore IFR freaks: Give me your best shot!

Post by GrahamP »

I'm not sure if this is an appropriate place to ask this but I have a question about the LDA/DME-D approach to PAPG, as shown on SkyVector http://smg.photobucket.com/user/GrahamP ... D.jpg.html

This is a DME arc to a localizer on heading 164deg, which is offset from runway 05/23. I understand circling to land on runway 5, but if landing in the other direction the 59 degree offset is too much and too close to get onto a stable approach to land on runway 23. How should I get from from the localizer to runway 23?

(P.S. Navaid updates applied to correct the FSX/P3D inaccuracy).

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Great Ozzie
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Re: Hardcore IFR freaks: Give me your best shot!

Post by Great Ozzie »

GrahamP wrote:I'm not sure if this is an appropriate place to ask this
Hi Graham. As good a place as any. A new thread in the Flight Academy sub-forum would have worked too. Ordinarily I'd say enter a mid-field crosswind for left traffic. A couple of major problems with that:

• The approach chart says, "Circling NA southeast of Rwy 5-23". That shoots down the above idea.

• If you look up in the Chart Supplements (formerly the AF/D) for PAPG you will see for Rwy 23 "Rgt tfc.".

• There's a big concern (literally) with terrain (you are no doubt keenly aware).

I have not tried this approach, but if I could make a "normal descent to landing" by entering a right base for 23, I'd try that. Depends what it would look like at the MAP.

If not (i.e. a normal descent would get me only to pattern altitude) you could just over-fly the airport. I'd probably enter in just over the approach end of 23, keep the runway on my left, as to keep it visible, and fly right traffic per the facility info.

-Rob
Rob Osborne
Flight Instructor - CFI, CFII, MEI, MEII
A & P Mechanic


FAASTeam - Safer Skies Through Education
Professionalism in aviation is the pursuit of excellence through discipline, ethical behavior and continuous improvement. NBAA

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DHenriques_
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Re: Hardcore IFR freaks: Give me your best shot!

Post by DHenriques_ »

paradoxbox wrote:I've been doing a lot of IFR practice recently in the various A2A planes. I tend to strip the GPS out of them since it makes things too easy, but I am able to use them without issue. Have to admit I am a fan of the old Bendix King KLN 87/94 etc. units and not the yucky blue Garmin units modeled in the sim.

Anyway, let's have your challenging IFR approaches and weather suggestions! Try to keep it to stuff where approach plates are available somewhere on the internet.

I'm betting people are going to throw up NDB approaches like that's the gauntlet, but I actually find them to be easier than VOR/DME stuff. The only time they're really a workout is in high winds at night with bad visibility..and mountains.


Well, here is my suggestion: Try flying KCEC Mcnamara Airport in California. The approach to rwy 12 (11 in the sim, due to the magnetic change over the past 10 years). The RWY 12 approach is a standard DME arc at 11NM, you're supposed to have dual DME in order to receive both the ILS and VOR DME at the same time.
http://flightaware.com/resources/airpor ... RWY+12/pdf

But if you want a real kick in the arse, try the BACKCOURSE approach. Oh man. There are dangerous TALLLL mountains EVERYWHERE around the airport. The MSA for everywhere but RWY12 is around 7000 or 8000 feet. Yikes. The area seems to be routinely covered in fog every night and morning in summer time.

It does have crossing runways so you can get some crosswind relief, but if the weather is too bad you'll have to take either rwy 12 or the back course!

Have fun and be sure to post up your suggestions!
Well.......if you had asked me this 50 years ago I'd have suggested a teardrop entry hold at a VOR intersection using the only avionics available, a NARCO Superhomer !. Doing that today with an HSI is sheer heaven ! :-))))

Dudley Henriques

GrahamP
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Re: Hardcore IFR freaks: Give me your best shot!

Post by GrahamP »

Great Ozzie wrote:I have not tried this approach, but if I could make a "normal descent to landing" by entering a right base for 23, I'd try that. Depends what it would look like at the MAP.

If not (i.e. a normal descent would get me only to pattern altitude) you could just over-fly the airport. I'd probably enter in just over the approach end of 23, keep the runway on my left, as to keep it visible, and fly right traffic per the facility info.

-Rob
Thanks, Rob. That makes sense. I'll give it a try.

Graham

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Great Ozzie
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Re: Hardcore IFR freaks: Give me your best shot!

Post by Great Ozzie »

DHenriquesA2A wrote:Well.......if you had asked me this 50 years ago I'd have suggested a teardrop entry hold at a VOR intersection using the only avionics available, a NARCO Superhomer !. Doing that today with an HSI is sheer heaven ! :-))))
Hey Dudley,

I thought maybe you were being a bit tongue-in-cheek with the name "Superhomer" - until I found that pic of one at the Smithsonian. :D

-Rob
Rob Osborne
Flight Instructor - CFI, CFII, MEI, MEII
A & P Mechanic


FAASTeam - Safer Skies Through Education
Professionalism in aviation is the pursuit of excellence through discipline, ethical behavior and continuous improvement. NBAA

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