C172 parking brakes vs toe brakes

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Hossi
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C172 parking brakes vs toe brakes

Post by Hossi »

Hi, friends,
hope anvbody can help to solve that Problem.
Every time when I set my feet on the pedale for rudder and toe Brakes
the parking brake is going to off. Even I set mey feet like a Butterfly on the
pedale the parking brake is off. I think that isn't realistic.
Is it possible to uncouple parking Brakes from the toe Brakes?

ciao
Horst
Last edited by Hossi on 17 Oct 2015, 11:44, edited 1 time in total.

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Nick - A2A
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Re: C172 parking brakes vs toe brakes

Post by Nick - A2A »

Hi Horst,

How have you got your toe brakes set up? Pressing your toes brakes if they're assigned as an axis shouldn't release the parking brakes. However, using a button or key press (such as the default FSX "." assignment) rather than an axis will disengage the parking brake.

[Retrospective edit: the above statement is incorrect and I have since realised that only FSUIPC allows the toe brake axes to be pressed without disengaging the parking brake.]

If you're an FSUIPC user, you can set the amount of toe brake pressure used to disengage the parking brake. Toe brake behaviour has changed a bit since the original release though (I think), so have you downloaded and run the latest Accu-Sim updater from here: http://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtop ... 23&t=41279 ?

Cheers,
Nick
Last edited by Nick - A2A on 25 Oct 2015, 11:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Oracle427
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Re: C172 parking brakes vs toe brakes

Post by Oracle427 »

One last thing to note is that any activation of the toe brakes will deactivate the parking brake. It is the standard FSX behavior and can not be decoupled.
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Nick - A2A
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Re: C172 parking brakes vs toe brakes

Post by Nick - A2A »

Oracle427 wrote:[...] any activation of the toe brakes will deactivate the parking brake.
Oracle - out of interest, when you say "toe brakes" is this based on experience with Saitek/CH rudder pedals etc. using a toe brake axis?

Thanks,
Nick
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Oracle427
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Re: C172 parking brakes vs toe brakes

Post by Oracle427 »

I just call the brakes the toe brakes to distinguish them from the parking brakes in line with the OP.

On some aircraft the brakes might be heel brakes or activated using a lever, etc. In FSX, the parking brake will disconnect any time the "brakes" are applied.
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Nick - A2A
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Re: C172 parking brakes vs toe brakes

Post by Nick - A2A »

Okay, I'm just interested because I've been looking into different rudder pedals recently (along with the relevant FSUIPC settings). As far as I'm aware, although the standard FSX keyboard or button input for "brakes (apply/release)" will disengage the parking brake, rudder pedals won't provided the toe brakes are assigned to a proper hardware axis (or strictly speaking two axes - one for left and one for right). :)

[Retrospective edit: the above statement is incorrect and I have since realised that only FSUIPC allows the toe brake axes to be pressed without disengaging the parking brake. In this case, having FSUIPC loaded even if default FSX axes were used had an influence.]

I've tested this with a couple of HID axes, though not on actual rudder pedals as I've yet to choose a set! :?

Cheers,
Nick
Last edited by Nick - A2A on 25 Oct 2015, 12:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Hossi
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Re: C172 parking brakes vs toe brakes

Post by Hossi »

Hi, friends,
Problem is solved. What have I done?
I opened FSUIPC again, click the clear button and
construct the brake axis new. No success.
So trying it again.
Click the clear button and construct the brake axis new.
Now it works. As a result now I have to press the pedale
more than like a Butterfly until the parking brake will be
going to off. :D
Now it works properly but I dont't know why. :roll:

ciao
Horst

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Nick - A2A
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Re: C172 parking brakes vs toe brakes

Post by Nick - A2A »

Hi Horst,

Glad you've sorted the issue - it sounds as though the axes weren't calibrated correctly. As mentioned above, as you use FSUIPC, you can specify the amount of toe brake pressure needed to release the parking brake. To do so, use the following line in the FSUIPC.ini file:

BrakeReleaseThreshold=75

75 is the default entry (corresponding to 75% of axis deflection.) I believe if you set the value to 0 it will turn this feature off so that you have to manually release the parking brake. :)

Cheers,
Nick
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Hossi
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Re: C172 parking brakes vs toe brakes

Post by Hossi »

Hi, friends,
sorry for that. But the problem is back.
Maybe I too much tired in the early morning hours. I didn't notice that the
toe Brakes where not working together. It works particular only.
Now I deleted the axis for the C172 completely in the FSUIPC and construct it new.
Same Problem as I wrote in my first posting. At the same moment when I put my
feet on the pedale the parking brake was going to off.
Next Experiment was this:
I deleted the axis in the FSUIPC ini for the C172 again and construct the toe Brakes in FSX
and started the FSX new. Same Problem again.
For the brake axis with FSUIPC in axisassignment it is very important not the Joystick
calibration to use. With that the Brakes doesen't work together only particular.
Last test was as you recomended to controll the line in the FSUIPC ini:
BrakeRelease=75 and set it to Zero. But that it doesn't help.
Sorry for my bad English but I hope you understand what I mean.

Greetings from Kiel North Germany
ciao
Horst

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Nick - A2A
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Re: C172 parking brakes vs toe brakes

Post by Nick - A2A »

Hi Horst,

Before doing any further troubleshooting, have you downloaded and installed the latest Accu-Sim updater as linked in my first post above?

Thanks,
Nick
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Hossi
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Re: C172 parking brakes vs toe brakes

Post by Hossi »

Hi, Nick,
yes I did. But it solved not the Problem. :cry:

ciao
Horst

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Nick - A2A
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Re: C172 parking brakes vs toe brakes

Post by Nick - A2A »

Okay, thanks Horst. Some questions:

What brand/model of rudder pedals do you use, and do you have any special software/drivers installed for them?

Which simulator platform (FSX, FSX Steam or P3D) do you use?

Do you see this issue in other aircraft or just the A2A C172?

I'd recommend bypassing FSUIPC to initially rule out any other issues when troubleshooting: just delete FSUIPC entries and assign the toe brake axes using the controls menu in the simulator. For FSUIPC, make sure you have the most recent update installed.

Nick
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Re: C172 parking brakes vs toe brakes

Post by MadRobbie1 »

Horst, Nick,

Hello Gentlemen. Regarding the automatic parking brake release whenever the wheel/toe/differential brakes are activated - from my experience this has always been an issue within FSX (and back through other MSFS versions over the years). It doesn't seem to matter whether you use keyboard commands, assignments via a joystick controller button directly using the game GUI or a 3rd party stick programming software or using a controller axis, the results are the same: the parking brake immediately gets disengaged.

I'm currently using Saitek ProPedals (with the toe brake axis assigned) and an X-55 Rhino with the parking brake assigned to button 'D' on the joystick with FSX:Steam. I have a full version of FSUIPC installed and also Accu-Feel V2, but so far I've not attempted to program/setup either as I've been focused so much on A2A's Accu-Sim types
!
I have previously used FS2002 Professional, then FS2004 Century of Flight, then onto FSX and through the various SP's and ultimately FSX:Accleration before going onto FSX:Steam, and its been the same throughout.

If it could ever be uncoupled (or if anyone out there knows a workaround), it would undoubtedly be great for some aircraft!

Cheers!
Rob
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Nick - A2A
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Re: C172 parking brakes vs toe brakes

Post by Nick - A2A »

Thanks Rob,

That's really interesting: as another long-term FS user, I've always been painfully aware of that (often unwelcome) behaviour whereby the parking brake is disengaged if one uses a keyboard or button assignment for the default "brakes (apply/release)" action. However, I was under the impression that an axis used for toe brakes didn't suffer the same fundamental flaw. Though I don't have rudder pedals yet, I did some testing with joystick axes which did allow me to depress the toe brakes fully without disengaging the parking brake.

I'll do some more testing, but I'd have though one basic HID axis would be treated much like another, irrespective of whether it's on a joystick or pedals.

As noted above, there's also that "BrakeReleaseThreshold" entry in FSUIPC which is specifically designed to allow this behaviour to be customised. All this leaves me a bit uncertain... :?

Cheers,
Nick
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Re: C172 parking brakes vs toe brakes

Post by MadRobbie1 »

Nick M wrote:....I was under the impression that an axis used for toe brakes didn't suffer the same fundamental flaw. Though I don't have rudder pedals yet, I did some testing with joystick axes which did allow me to depress the toe brakes fully without disengaging the parking brake....
Hi Nick,

Interesting what you say here - to be honest with you I have never tried assigning the toe brake axis to any other axis apart from the toe brakes on the Saitek rudder pedals. So there may well be a chance that depending on how an axis communicates to FSX (depending on hardware manufacturer, drivers and the kit/programming software you use), that this 'interference' may not be universal.
But like you, my previous thoughts were one basic HID axis would be treated much like another.

Before I had rudder pedals, I went through a couple of Saitek HOTAS units - The X36 then X45. My personal 'standard' setup was parking brake assigned to the 'Launch' button on top of the stick, with the 'apply brakes' on the trigger. This still had the effect of instant parking brake release once the trigger was pulled.

I too feel some testing is in order!

Keep us all posted if you find out anything interesting,

Cheers!
Rob
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Saitek: X-55, ProPedals, Throttle Quadrant, x2 ProGamer pads; VRInsight TT Panel.

All A2A aircraft, Accufeel and Aircraft Factory Corsair/P-51/Anson.

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