Elevator Effectiveness =2?

[ilya1502]

Hmm... Definitely can't see any differences in my set-up and I don't recall any differences between the flight dynamics in FSX and P3D ever being documented. If it was, this would presumably represent a real headache for add-on developers.

The only reason I can think of is that in P3D I have almost twice as high framerate than in FSX. And as I was engaged in making FD for FSX, I can tell this can make a difference.

[Nick - A2A]

Yeah, I know that FPS in the sim can have an effect on trim rate at least. Dramatically different frame rates could probably give the perception of different behaviour too, especially during a critical phase such as the landing flare. 60 fps for this would be nice, and don't anyone go telling me that the human brain can't perceive a difference between frame rates of 30 and 60!

Nick

[bobsk8]

Just an FYI, since I made the change in the elevator axis using FSUIPC and a curve of Plus 4 , I have not had one bad landing. That was the solution.

[AKar]

Yeah, it's too bad that FSX/P3D doesn't support any detailed adjusting of custom curves for controllers to account for various controllers. I've never investigated how FSUIPC could help in matter (even though I've got the registered version of it).

-Esa

[Nick - A2A]

Just an FYI, since I made the change in the elevator axis using FSUIPC and a curve of Plus 4 , I have not had one bad landing. That was the solution.

Sounds like a much better solution than editing the elevator effectiveness entry in the aircraft.cfg.

Cheers,
Nick

P.S. I try not to fiddle with axis calibrations in FSUIPC either Esa, but from what I've read about Saitek yokes in particular, I can see how it could help. It certainly seems to offer a better solution than the default "sensitivity" and "null zone" settings.

[ilya1502]

Sounds like a much better solution than editing the elevator effectiveness entry in the aircraft.cfg.

Nick, he said "and" Personally, I could not cure the problem with FSUIPC axis tuning only.

[bobsk8]

Sounds like a much better solution than editing the elevator effectiveness entry in the aircraft.cfg.

Nick, he said "and" Personally, I could not cure the problem with FSUIPC axis tuning only.

The "and" refers to the FSUIPC elevator curve setting which is part of the axis setting in FSUIPC. The is the only change I made to make the 172 fly like the real 172 in landing flare.

[Nick - A2A]

The "and" refers to the FSUIPC elevator curve setting which is part of the axis setting in FSUIPC. The is the only change I made to make the 172 fly like the real 172 in landing flare.

Yes, that's how I interpreted it - thanks for clarifying Bob and glad you're happier now with the 172.

Ilya - out of interest, what hardware do you use?

Nick

[ilya1502]

Yes, that's how I interpreted it - thanks for clarifying Bob and glad you're happier now with the 172.

Yep, I looked closer. It is strange, because I couldn't get the same result with the FSUIPC tuning only.

Ilya - out of interest, what hardware do you use?

ASUS P8Z77-V Deluxe // Intel i7-3770 @ 3.40 GHz // 4x2 Gb DDR3-1333 // MSI GeForce GTX 970 // HDD WD Black WD7501-AALS 750 Gb + HDD WD Blue WD20-EZRZ 2000 Gb // Win7
Might seem pretty modest

My controls are very simple: Logitech Extreme 3D Pro + Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals

[dvm]

This may be obvious but if you want to tune the elevator effectiveness number you can make small changes with a number between 1 and 2. Going from 2 to 1 is quite a large change I don't see any problem with making minor adjustments in this fashion 1.75 or 1.5 for instance. As discussed if you make too big a change in the negative direction you could run out of full elevator travel. The travel of your input device will effect the sensitivity of the input. Some sticks such as the Fighter stick have relatively long throws as compared to some other joysticks as an example. So changing the number slightly in the negative direction could help with an oversensitive control in my experience. My homemade throttles and crosswind pedals are a good example of long throws making for more precise control.

[bobsk8]

This may be obvious but if you want to tune the elevator effectiveness number you can make small changes with a number between 1 and 2. Going from 2 to 1 is quite a large change I don't see any problem with making minor adjustments in this fashion 1.75 or 1.5 for instance. As discussed if you make too big a change in the negative direction you could run out of full elevator travel. The travel of your input device will effect the sensitivity of the input. Some sticks such as the Fighter stick have relatively long throws as compared to some other joysticks as an example. So changing the number slightly in the negative direction could help with an oversensitive control in my experience. My homemade throttles and crosswind pedals are a good example of long throws making for more precise control.

I tried 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, 1.6, 1,7, 1.8 and 1.9. The solution was to use FSUIPC, a curve of +1.4 and the default of 2.0 for elevator effectiveness. I spent hours and hours working on this. The curve is what was important, minimizing the effect around neutral and increasing when full elevator deflection was needed.

[Eseem]

Curving the axis definately makes sense. The problem here is that spring loaded yokes and sticks with a defined center just don't work like mechanically linked flight controls do. In real life you have a wide center where you need almost no measurable force to fine tune the controls, and as you increase input from center, more force is required. Also, we have one set distance between full forward and full aft, but we fly C172s (30cm between stops), F16s (0-1cm between stops, for feel only) and B737s (miles and miles and miles of movement range) with the same stick, which easily can make our control input habits too excessive for a tiny GA aircraft coming from a jumbo where you're doing gymnastics with the control wheel. Curving the axis is really the only way to compensate in a tolerable way for this if you want our sim hardware to even remotely match what we're simulating. Yes control force input is different in all aircraft, but so is the flight controls them selves. We (usually) only have one piece of equipment to fit them all.

This might seem completely obvious to many, but I had almost never reflected upon this issue before I started flying myself. Thought it might help.