Trouble landing: can't center the aircraft with the runway.

[domini99]

Hey, does anybody have some tips? in the 172, this particular aircraft, i'm having lots of trouble centering the plane with the runway's centerline. I'm never landing in the middle of it, but always at the left or at the right. If i try to correct while im still flying, the thing tends to drift left and right while hovering above the runway. Either forcing me to land not in the middle, or going around.

Should i worry that i don't land in the middle of the runway?
This one is one of my worse landings, but it resembles most of my landings with the 172
I land like... here:



or here:



It looks embarrassing to me
Anybody has some tips on putting her down right, or shouldn't I worry?

i have been doing touch and go's for nearly a hour now. None of them all has been on the centerline

[Bruce Hamilton]

I've been doing this for almost six years, and I rarely land on the center line. Missing the runway entirely is embarrassing, not being dead center is just being picky.

[Tiger_Walts]

The problem may lie with trying to achieve your centreline position and orientation without enough rudder use. Or you're relying on coordinated flight to position the plane.

First, use coordinated inputs to get the plane along the centreline, orientation isn't paramount. Once there, start using ailerons to compensated for sideways drift and use the rudder to point the plane down the runway. You'll often end up with a little cross control, rudder opposing bank.

With coordinated flight, you're addressing a 2 problems with essentially one tool. With cross control, you're solving them separately with 2 separate tools. Sure, there is some 'cross-talk', applying rudder will affect roll as well as yaw, but with practice you will anticipate and compensate. Just like using pitch for airspeed and power for vertical speed to hold a glide slope.

When you reach the runway, maintain this cross control throughout the landing, which in crosswinds will result in a few degrees of bank. Requiring you to touch one main wheel before the other. Keep the ailerons deflected through the roll out too, with the wheels down the crosswind switches to a tipping action. Left unchecked, this will compress the downwind wheel strut more than the upwind and can have adverse affects on ground handling. Generally, if you need a lot of rudder to hold centreline, you probably need more opposing aileron.

[domini99]

I've been doing this for almost six years, and I rarely land on the center line. Missing the runway entirely is embarrassing, not being dead center is just being picky.

Yeah but am I not landing ridiculously far away from the centerline?

The problem may lie with trying to achieve your centreline position and orientation without enough rudder use. Or you're relying on coordinated flight to position the plane.

First, use coordinated inputs to get the plane along the centreline, orientation isn't paramount. Once there, start using ailerons to compensated for sideways drift and use the rudder to point the plane down the runway. You'll often end up with a little cross control, rudder opposing bank.

With coordinated flight, you're addressing a 2 problems with essentially one tool. With cross control, you're solving them separately with 2 separate tools. Sure, there is some 'cross-talk', applying rudder will affect roll as well as yaw, but with practice you will anticipate and compensate. Just like using pitch for airspeed and power for vertical speed to hold a glide slope.

When you reach the runway, maintain this cross control throughout the landing, which in crosswinds will result in a few degrees of bank. Requiring you to touch one main wheel before the other. Keep the ailerons deflected through the roll out too, with the wheels down the crosswind switches to a tipping action. Left unchecked, this will compress the downwind wheel strut more than the upwind and can have adverse affects on ground handling. Generally, if you need a lot of rudder to hold centreline, you probably need more opposing aileron.

I'll take a look when I'm home again
Thanks in advance

[Oracle427]

Another thing to consider is that you need to look at the far end of the runway as you level off and flare. Don't look right over the nose, because you get less information from that position.

In your approach you will begin by looking at the near end of the runway, but you need to mentally shift to the far end as you begin the level off.

Then do as Tiger_Walts posted and practice!

Are you having trouble landing on the centerline without crosswinds or only with crosswinds?

[domini99]

Another thing to consider is that you need to look at the far end of the runway as you level off and flare. Don't look right over the nose, because you get less information from that position.

In your approach you will begin by looking at the near end of the runway, but you need to mentally shift to the far end as you begin the level off.

Then do as Tiger_Walts posted and practice!

Are you having trouble landing on the centerline without crosswinds or only with crosswinds?

With and without.
Although, without crosswind I don't look like I'm drunk.

Without crosswind I just make a nice approach and land somewhere in between left and right of the runway. But not near the centerline.

[taildraggin68]

If I may ask, what are you using as a reference to line up with on approach? Crosswind or otherwise, I use the middle of the "six pack" on or just a hair left of the center line, but it's in my peripheral vision as I'. looking to the end of the runway through roundout and flare. I may drift a little left or right depending on winds but usually within the width of the airframe(cabin) at touchdown. Takes lots of practise and patience

[domini99]

If I may ask, what are you using as a reference to line up with on approach? Crosswind or otherwise, I use the middle of the "six pack" on or just a hair left of the center line, but it's in my peripheral vision as I'. looking to the end of the runway through roundout and flare. I may drift a little left or right depending on winds but usually within the width of the airframe(cabin) at touchdown. Takes lots of practise and patience

On Fsx i don't really know.. I cant resemble Fsx a lot with the real aircraft I've flown in (Cessna 182).

I usually look at the middle and end of the runway, like "There's where I'm gonna go'. And fly all centered over the runway, than the point of flaring comes, I pull the nose up, and the last second the plane drifts from left to right in mid air and touches down NOT in the center.

[Tug002]

I've been doing this for almost six years, and I rarely land on the center line. Missing the runway entirely is embarrassing, not being dead center is just being picky.

Hey there, I agree with Bruce. any landing on the runway, and one that you can walk away from is a good landing. I will allways remember when my father messed up a landing him saying " Oh well, any landing you can walk away from is a good landing" and believe me we had a few hairy landings over the years

Keep smiling
Tug

[taildraggin68]

Yes, any landing you can walk away from is a good landing Have heard that for years lol, but maybe the flare is a bit too much, too high? Try keeping the nose just below the far end of the runway and retract flaps just before touchdown and see if that helps. The 172 will float a bit but it is manageable I prefer to hear the stall horn chirp just before the tires chirp. Just suggestions and mileage may vary.

[domini99]

I've been doing this for almost six years, and I rarely land on the center line. Missing the runway entirely is embarrassing, not being dead center is just being picky.

Hey there, I agree with Bruce. any landing on the runway, and one that you can walk away from is a good landing. I will allways remember when my father messed up a landing him saying " Oh well, any landing you can walk away from is a good landing" and believe me we had a few hairy landings over the years

Keep smiling
Tug

Hahaha, i heard my grandpa saying this after landing with a main gear that was stuck up (Cessna 172RG)
He said "Any landing you can away from is a good one, any landing the plane is in usable state is a perfect one"

Yes, any landing you can walk away from is a good landing Have heard that for years lol, but maybe the flare is a bit too much, too high? Try keeping the nose just below the far end of the runway and retract flaps just before touchdown and see if that helps. The 172 will float a bit but it is manageable I prefer to hear the stall horn chirp just before the tires chirp. Just suggestions and mileage may vary.

The stall horn in the 172 is the most typical thing ever
The retract flaps worked really well.
Here's one of my better landings now:



That's more like it
The landing doesn't have to be perfect, but i also want to land on smaller runways, that are not as wide as Schiphol's (icao = EHAM). It will help alot when you can actually land on the runway instead of stealing the hats of people standing next to the runway with my wingtip

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

Are there cockpit references to use when landing for touching the centerline? What is the ideal 500 ft altitude 60 kts - 100 ft/min 4 nm out picture?

[Tug002]

The hardest part with flying FSX is it is all visual. you can not feel what the aircraft is doing, which makes it hard to adjust in time to center for the runway. The little bumps and pulls on the stick all contribute to a centered landing.

Keep smiling
Tug

[Great Ozzie]

Are there cockpit references to use when landing for touching the centerline?

It's your choice.

Looking at the picture above your post Wild Bill, you can see the defrost knobs (right above the aircraft callsign). I might use something like that to align with the centerline. It all depends on how you set your viewpoint and what you decide works best for you.

What is the ideal 500 ft altitude 60 kts - 100 ft/min 4 nm out picture?

Not sure what you mean the "100 ft/min 4 nm out"...

For the approach, trim for your approach speed... and "memorize" the picture you see. Again, it depends on your viewpoint. Just so you can lower the nose to a certain distance below the horizon and say, "that's about right" and verify with the airspeed indicator.

[Oracle427]

Don't fly by the instruments. Just check on on your airspeed every now and then and trim the airplane to make it easy to keep it the proper approach speed.

Again not that you need to be looking at these instruments, but a 100 ft/min VSI is extremely shallow. A safer approach is around 450-500 ft/min. You do not want to be relying on the engine to drag you all the way in to the runway. You will also have poor visibility over the nose in such a shallow approach at the proper airspeed.

Have you used the built in flying lessons to learn flying a traffic pattern and landing?