Vramesh AUTOGEN forests 1 Mod

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vramesh
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Re: Vramesh AUTOGEN forests 1 Mod

Post by vramesh »

I am back . After a 1000 KM drive (single driver, aka yours truly, and various terrain including, paved road, kutcha road and even a little bit of offroad , in our Mahindra Xylo 2wd) to my ancestral native village and back. This is a perennial annual family activity that we do to pay obeisance to our native God.

Dear Hazzie,

♫ The results are in...
....for the new fixed bin...
the fix didn't kill the bug...but....
....it certainly helped in its miti....
...
...
...
...gation! ♫

:P
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dear Stickman,

Thank you for the valuable feedback.
First of all I am happy that you did not get any CTD. That means, I have properly hacked the bins.

This was always going to be a second-best solution. Pop-poof is one imperfection and reduced LoD is another imperfection introduced to cancel/mitigate the former.
Merlin engine is the place to properly "kill" this bug. Your tests have also confirmed this. As I had suspected, the object hack only reduced this problem and failed kill it. (But, I really hoped it will kill it. Oh well. you win some and lose some.)
I have to tweak the LoD very carefully now. Anything more, the *pop-poof-pop* effect will amplify, anything less, the pilot/viewer won't see any buildings at all as they'd go under the wings/fuselage. Not much wiggle room. Who knows, I may hit the Goldilocks LoD distance where this effect becomes minimal-to-unnoticeable and still see considerable number of buildings out the cockpit.

I'll modify the LoD of #62 tree1 to see if it solves the visibility-thru-cloud bug.
I'll just proceed with changing LoD for the other ground objects anyway, for the sake of uniformity. It will be a bonus if the frame rate just "appears" to be smooth. May be a placebo effect too.
Always good to have freedom of choice -- stick with stock or try new mod.



Regards,
Vasanth
Last edited by vramesh on 19 Apr 2016, 15:34, edited 1 time in total.
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vramesh
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Re: Vramesh AUTOGEN forests 1 Mod

Post by vramesh »

Vramesh versus "pop-poof-pop" bug -- Round two.

Greetings Dear Stickman!

Now I am armed with the power of code!
As per your feedback, even at 50,000 LoD units, at certain view angles (like approach angle to Croydon AF), pop-poof-pop happens :evil:
Wrote a program to systematically & automatically reduce the Max LoD draw distance to 47,000.

May I trouble you with a couple more test requests please?
I realize it is eating up your time for Crater project. Sorry.
Whenever possible (at your leisure), could you please test if any of the two mods listed below improve the situation over the previous mod?

The first one reduces the max draw distance to 47000 and the second one to 45000.
I have stopped at 45000 because any further reduction is futile.
If none of these two mods kill this bug, I'll resign myself to the fact that this bug can only be killed in the Merlin engine.

Here is the 47000 version tbins:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/xg17q ... Fix_v2.zip

and Here is the 45000 version tbins
http://www.mediafire.com/download/hn5am ... Fix_v3.zip

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Any other volunteers to test this mod?
--
Vasanth
Veni, vidi, velcro

I came, I saw, I stuck around...

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Re: Vramesh AUTOGEN forests 1 Mod

Post by HAZZIE »

Vram , your tune reminded me of being 8 yrs old, and having to recite my tables once;

was terrified, and got called up third in line, after the first two got theirs perfectly correct;

it was the 7x table, and instead of reciting 7x2 is 14, 7x3 is 21, and so on ,

I froze, then hummed the tune, "hum hum hmmmm is hum -umm, hum hum hmmmm is hum -umm, ...... "

to then get clouted around the ear by that dragon of a teacher, whom asked " what the hell is wrong, didnt you learn last night?"

I replied, "sorry ma'm , I forgot the the words, but remembered the tune........"

that's about as much sense I can make out, about what you guys are talking about here.......

Ha- heeeeeeeeeeeeeee :roll: Go for it
.
.
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last WLSC


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Re: Vramesh AUTOGEN forests 1 Mod

Post by stickman »

Vasanth,
May I trouble you with a couple more test requests please?
I realize it is eating up your time for Crater project. Sorry.
Whenever possible (at your leisure), could you please test if any of the two mods listed below improve the situation over the previous mod?
Yes, I will try them this week.
Your project here is more important than my Bomb Craters Project. No one has ever complained that the bomb craters did not work correctly since v2.11,
while many folks have complained about the airfield buildings "pop-up poof! pop-up" bug.
I am here to help you priority #1.

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Re: Vramesh AUTOGEN forests 1 Mod

Post by vramesh »

Dear Stickman,

Thank you very much!
++++++++++NOTE++++++++++++++++++++++++
The three mods modify the LoD of only the urban tbin objects (to test the theory).
The other objects (which may be in London like airfield objects, trees, factories etc.) might still display the bug !!!
So, if we simply fly around London with these mods, we may still see the bug but, hopefully, it should not be the urban tbins exhibiting it.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I backed up my ObjectAdds dir, created a new one with a fresh new.txt file and filled it up with just urban tbins around Marck AF and flew around in Alt+V mode to see if the bug showed up. So far, it didn't with 45000 (*touchwood**fingers-crossed*). They just *pop* when we are near and go *poof* beyond drawdistance. I've not noticed any sinking or burying yet or another *pop* happening.
I'll test it some more before stepping it up to 47000 (where I expect to see a hint of sinking/burying and maybe even a second *pop*). The reason I persist with 47000 is because that sinking/burying technique has the nice effect of gradually bringing the objects to view instead of the abrupt *pop* in 45000.

Oh, by the way, I have my Object Quality settings to Maximum and Horizon Distance to High and Groundobject Density to Full.
I think these variables somehow interact with the drawdistance and the 3D object to select the proper LoD mesh for the view distance.

Thank you once again for helping with the test.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dear Hazzie,

I was imagining Dr. Frank N Furter mouthing the tune when I wrote them. ;-)
Regards,
Vasanth
Veni, vidi, velcro

I came, I saw, I stuck around...

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HAZZIE
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Re: Vramesh AUTOGEN forests 1 Mod

Post by HAZZIE »

yeah, Vram, I see that now ........

"shiver in.........Mitig.........aaaaaa.....tion ! vs Anticip..................aaaaaa...tion !

" I see you've met .......... my favourite, handy-man ?" Riff-Raff, my favourite character

as in, see https://youtu.be/wlwnbcxBuzI

when on earth did you watch that ancient movie? saw it here in 1976 on 2nd day, luckily as on day three, it was banned as censors
deemed it immoral ( LGBC was outlawed, thosesdays )
.
.
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Re: Vramesh AUTOGEN forests 1 Mod

Post by stickman »

Vasanth,
The three mods modify the LoD of only the urban tbin objects (to test the theory).
The other objects (which may be in London like airfield objects, trees, factories etc.) might still display the bug !!!
So, if we simply fly around London with these mods, we may still see the bug but, hopefully, it should not be the urban tbins exhibiting it.
Yes, I am aware of that. London is still a good place as 90% of all houses and shops, etc are tbins.
I know industrial buildings like factories, warehouses, etc. are individual objects and have not yet been modified.
I know what the objects (tbins too) are as I have placed thousands of them around England.
Oh, by the way, I have my Object Quality settings to Maximum and Horizon Distance to High and Groundobject Density to Full.
I think these variables somehow interact with the drawdistance and the 3D object to select the proper LoD mesh for the view distance.
Oh. I did not consider that. I have Object Quality settings to High. Will set them to Maximum. Thanks for the tip.
It may not matter. Another thing to test?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did some testing last night. Need more looks.
I have seen a noticeable improvement in frame rates with these new LODs. The frame rates improve quite a lot, actually. :)
The effect on frame rates is also why I want to test at London, which has a HUGE number of objects placed.
ObjectAdd files : London Buildings1, London Buildings2, and London Buildings3 all together have 4,400 objects! Most all are tbins.

----

One trouble is getting my wings sheared off by those pesky barrage balloons!
Will report later. Need more data and looks, so will test more tonight and probably tomorrow night.

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Re: Vramesh AUTOGEN forests 1 Mod

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Dear Stickman,
I have seen a noticeable improvement in frame rates with these new LODs. The frame rates improve quite a lot, actually. :)
Image
Another thing to test?
Maybe a good idea. I read (in this forum somewhere) that Object Detail adjusts LoD of the meshes. But, I don't know if it is restricted only to interesting shapes (aka planes) or everything.
Hang on...
here it is, from "the" gfx coder, Osram, himself:
I am "the" gfx coder but PV has already said most that there is to say. :)

Regarding "popping" there is the LoD inside the 3D objects which for example determines when it will change from a dot to a square and when from the square to a more complex shape. This can be "biased" with the object quality setting.

Also, even just looking into the object list and drawing a dot for all objects would be too much work for distant terrain tiles, so for complete tiles objects are switched off. Unfortunately the code doing this is extremely optimised and hard to tweak.

Keeping fingers crossed and hoping for a favourable verdict.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dear Hazzie,

I saw it much much later when it was shown on cable TV here, when I was 16-17 yrs old. Knew Richard O'Brien as the charismatic , energetic and sometimes bizarre looking (a man wearing a leopard-print fur coat and leggings?) but a perfect host of The Crystal Maze, one of my favourite shows. Saw the name in the cast (as I didn't know much about the other cast members then) and tuned in to watch the movie. I was shocked and remember thinking, "Well, this movie is nothing like The Crystal Maze. Its just a bunch of weird people wearing heavy makeup and singing in their underwear"! Something similar happened again for Dark City too. Saw that movie only because Richard O'Brien's name was in the cast. I was shocked to discover that sweet ol' O'Brien was a bad guy in it. NOOoo!

See, back then I used to think:
Schwarzenegger and Stallone means lots a guns, action and lotsa 'splosions,
Eastwood means cowboys, horses and gun duels
Bud Spencer and Terrence Hill means slaps/swats to the face and a bash to the head
Jackie Chan means "haiiiiiyaaaah!!!"
So, it was only natural to expect a Crystal Maze-esqe character from Richard O'Brien, where he is the good-guy and all charming and energetic and the likes yes?

Later, I wanted to know what happened to Crystal Maze and during that quest, thanks to internet, I found out that ol' Riff-Raff was more like Dr. Frank N Furter...in real life! :shock: :shock: :shock: Ah! So THAT explains the fur-coat!
And he is 74+ yrs old? :shock: He may be the youngest looking 74 year old I have seen !
Dammit O'Brien! That's four shocks in a row!

Now, I associate O'Brien with *shocking surprises*

Anyway, I liked his performances in all the three works I saw him perform in.
--
Vasanth
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I came, I saw, I stuck around...

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Re: Vramesh AUTOGEN forests 1 Mod

Post by HAZZIE »

Hmfph...... Vram, so you also a movie Boff ? V.interesting take,

esp Terrece Hill / Budd Spencer https://youtu.be/Yd8TpzioY6k - never missed these movies when they came out in the '70s
this movie came up on satellite a few years ago, and one 20-somthing daughter was here , so got her to watch it, telling her it was good.........
embarrasing. to say the least, she thought my taste rather urbane - however that's what is was in the 70's

old 70's movies of note, that I remember; have you seen any of these

One Flew over the Cucoo's nest ( Nicholson ) https://youtu.be/OXrcDonY-B8
Clockwork Orange ( Kubrick , McDowell )
The Sleeper ( Woody Allen ) https://youtu.be/Qo2Lo28FNpg
Taxi Driver ( Tarantino, de Nero ) https://youtu.be/_CImWc7og28
Burning Bridges ( Sutherland, Savalas, Squint Eastwardly , Charles Guronsan ) https://youtu.be/kgeIINs1TrQ
Catch 22 ( read Heller book 1st, Orson Wells, Art Garfunckle, Richard Benjamin - nice WWII Mitchel bombers in this ) https://youtu.be/E9wcK6qvCqI

see this guy jus died https://youtu.be/F8BMm6Jn6oU
.
.
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Re: Vramesh AUTOGEN forests 1 Mod

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Dear Hazzie,
Not really a movie buff. Just a regular guy who watches them once in a while.
however that's what is was in the 70's
Bud Spencer/Terence Hill movies --- a shiny looking rock for some and a diamond for others.
People's taste and expectations change with time, I guess.
old 70's movies of note, that I remember; have you seen any of these
Movies from the list:
Yes
Yes
No
Yes
Yes
No
--
Vasanth
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I came, I saw, I stuck around...

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Re: Vramesh AUTOGEN forests 1 Mod

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am sure you will see the two 'Nos' sometime, Catch-22 is quite a satire on war; was, together with the book, banned here back then
as anti-war, which didn't suit the 'war like' Boers in the middle of Apartheid and the fight against universal franchise

but, we had our ways and means of watching illegal imports........ and ran the gauntlet of going to jail for watching such 'communist propaganda' as
students - thank Allah, the regime was not as bad as say Erdogan's Turkey today - would jus 'dissapear' for sure, for doing this

however, and terribly, many Blacks, did jus dissapear

yes, buff, not 'boff' , that belongs to a boffin, which bit seems you very much, are, in this thread
.
.
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Re: Vramesh AUTOGEN forests 1 Mod

Post by stickman »

Burning Bridges ( Sutherland, Savalas, Squint Eastwardly , Charles Guronsan )
Burning Bridges was the theme song for the movie "Kelly's Heroes", HAZZIE.
Clint Eastwood always chose good theme songs for the movies he produced.

There are many songs titled "Burning Bridges" written by various artists.
The one Clint Eastwood chose was by the Mike Curb Congregation.
A song that particularly touches me, as I have been a man that has selfishly burned many bridges in my life time.
Yes.. I have not been a totally righteous man, and I do have some regrets when leaving friends & family behind, never looking back.
That said, there are always some more bridges to cross going forward!
Burning bridges is generally an unwise thing to do when dealing with Friends & Family. Might need their help some day!

Mike Curb Congregation. Burning Bridges lyrics:
https://youtu.be/ReUaQlsZZ5I

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, I love the old movies from the 60s and 70s too. Much better than most of the Hollywood crap we got now.
The Sand Pebbles. 1966. Steve McQueen, Richard Attenborough, Richard Crenna, Candice Bergen, Mako, Simon Oakland, Larry Gates,
Is one of my favorites.
Based on book written by Richard McKenna. A rare case where the movie is as good as the book.
This book & movie had had a big influence on my life choices and behavior as a teenager and as a young man.
Yes.. sailors are infamous for Burning Bridges!

However... we are getting a bit off topic, here.

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Re: Vramesh AUTOGEN forests 1 Mod

Post by vramesh »

However... we are getting a bit off topic, here.
Right.......
Image


Here are the files for the new beech.bin tree #1192 translated to VBIB format. Now beech trees also occlude clouds! :)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/ppjk9 ... 92_new.zip
Old bin(left) vs new bin(right)

Image

As of now, I have translated all stock BoB2 trees to VBIB format I think. I am currently translating #1543. Hope to finish and upload tomorrow.
--
Vasanth
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I came, I saw, I stuck around...

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Re: Vramesh AUTOGEN forests 1 Mod

Post by stickman »

Vasanth,

Got your new beech tree. Blocks clouds from ground level now. :)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

As per the new tbins objects tests, here is my first report.
Been busy working 2 weeks every day on 12 hour shifts. Big oil refinery shut down, for planned repair work. A bit tired out, now..

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All tests are with Free Flight > Croydon > Sunny.

All tests use this bdg text setting for frame rates:
SMOOTHEN_FRAMERATE_MODE=NONE # valid modes: NONE, LIMITED, SMOOTHEN, LIMIT_AND_SMOOTHEN

1. First tests used these settings.

Option settings:
- Texture Quality = Maximum
- Object Quality = Maximum
- Horizon = High
- Ground Object Density = Full

In most tests I tried to fly at 700 feet. (except in parentheses where I flew higher than 750 feet)

Tests were done on many different days.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note about the "Pop-up Poof! Pop-up" bug viewing ground objects when flying toward them.
I have seen that this happens at specific flying altitudes. A very very narrow angle of view.

That is.. as I try to trim the aircraft for level flight,
I still do some "porpoising" (not a true English word, but what US Navy sailors say)
like a dolphin (porpoise) swimming just under the sea and jumping up for air, back to sea, back to air, etc. like a long wave length sine wave. ~~~~~~
Anyway doing this porpoising, I see a very and definitive altitude where the Pop-up occurs, and where the popped-up buildings go Poof!
Specifically, and repeatedly.. the Pop-up occors at exactly 730 feet of altitude,
and the buildings go Poof! and disappear at exactly 720 feet of altitude.
A very narrow angle of view, but it is noticeable. Even with the new tbin objects.
The new tbin objects do nothing to prevent the "Pop-up Poof! Pop-up" bug, except to reduce the amount of them that do so,
by preventing many of the far away ones from appearing in the first place.

So... I look at how the new tbin objects will effect frame rates.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- Stock tbins tests:

1. Lowest fps 22. Average fps 44
2. Lowest fps 22. Average fps 38
3. Lowest fps 22. Average fps 37
4. Lowest fps 22. Average fps 37 (always flew higher than 750 feet)
5. Lowest fps 22. Average fps 34 (always flew higher than 750 feet)

- 50,000 max draw distance to tbins tests:

1. Lowest fps 34. Average fps 58
2. Lowest fps 33. Average fps 58
3. Lowest fps 32. Average fps 56
4. Lowest fps 29. Average fps 55 (always flew higher than 750 feet)
5. Lowest fps 29. Average fps 55 (always flew higher than 750 feet)

- 47,000 max draw distance to tbins tests:

1. Lowest fps 33. Average fps 57
2. Lowest fps 28. Average fps 58
3. Lowest fps 29. Average fps 55
4. Lowest fps 30. Average fps 55 (always flew higher than 750 feet)
5. Lowest fps 28. Average fps 56 (always flew higher than 750 feet)

- 45,000 max draw distance to tbins tests:

1. Lowest fps 30. Average fps 54
2. Lowest fps 31. Average fps 55
3. Lowest fps 30. Average fps 54 (always flew higher than 750 feet)
4. Lowest fps 28. Average fps 56 (always flew higher than 750 feet)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Conclusions as per frame rates:

1. The new tbin objects do give better frame rates at London. Much better.

2. I am not seeing any big improvement in frame rates using the 47,000 or the 45,000 max distance tbins, over the 50,000 max distance tbins.
So, if I was to use one, I would use the 50,000 one.

3. London is the "most busy" place in the "bobworld" as per objects. Many hundreds of objects make it up.
In all other places there are very few objects, and frame rates are not such a big worry.
Nevertheless, London does have a lot of Targets that the Germans should have been bombing early. Not later.
London is important, and the Battle will sooner or later go there.
Anything that we can do to improve frame rates at London can only be a good thing, in my opinion.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Next, I will do tests using these Options settings, to satisfy my own curiosity and ability to inform Players on the difference, if any:

Option settings:
- Texture Quality = High
- Object Quality = High
- Horizon = High
- Ground Object Density = Full

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vramesh
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Re: Vramesh AUTOGEN forests 1 Mod

Post by vramesh »

Dear Stickman,
Thank you for the tests and detailed report!
The new tbin objects do nothing to prevent the "Pop-up Poof! Pop-up" bug,
Since these LoD changes didn't kill the bug, I'll resign myself to the fact that this can be killed only in the engine :-( (that is until any other bright :idea: flashes by)
Anything that we can do to improve frame rates at London can only be a good thing, in my opinion.
Like you had mentioned before, some bugs are big. Some ideas kill them, some make them smaller and some fail completely but provide benign side-effects. I set out to kill the infamous "Popup-Poof-Popup" bug. I am dubbing it the "3P" bug. Much easier to type it. I failed to kill 3P but, ended up improving frame-rates at London! So, I'll go ahead and create an LoD* mod with the LoD of all the objectadd objects (ground objects, trees, airfield objects, factories etc) set to Max 50,000. Might be a useful* mod for those (of us) who endure a 'slide-show' flying in and around London airspace.

*Stickman, I do love the English language...along with Tamil, Sanskrit, Hindi, Telugu, Kannada, Malayalam, COBOL, Basic, Fortran, Pascal, C, C++, perl, python, ocaml, haskell.... Context-sensitive or context-free it doesn't matter :P First learnt them, then learnt to love them. Never perfected any of it though.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So, '3P' won rounds 2 and 3 too. A comprehensive victory by a 3rd round knockout. 3P has a new tally mark tattoo on its punching arm biceps now -- me. Image

Now, I'll slowly slink back to my corner to nurse my wounds and start work on the LoD mod. Image

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
3P lives only in VBIB objects and not in Rowan objects!
This can be seen by planting old #62 and new #62 (or old#1192 and new #1192) side by side and viewing them at the reported distance at the reported height.
So,this is where 3P lives in BoB2 (only in VBIB ground objects at specific distance, viewed in a narrow-range of angles):

Code: Select all

 

                               (user plane)
                                  ___
                                  \   \       _  _
                                   @@@ \______\/  \
                             ..X*##########*+^^\__\'~~~porpoising~~~~~
                        ......       \   \         
       ~1250 Mts .......              \   \
          .......                      \___\
   .......                               |
   ^                                ~240M (720 - 730 Ft)
 /   \                                   |
|_____|__________________________________|
(ground
object)
(any VBIB
ground 
object/
3P's den)
[/size]
--
Vasanth
Veni, vidi, velcro

I came, I saw, I stuck around...

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